Cards usefulness aka BUFF STUFF thread.

[Atomzed]

If you consider players like GOO and Dndfreak as new players.....

Well, I have nothing further to add sir.

[Unruler]

If you consider players like GOO and Dndfreak as new players.....

Well, I have nothing further to add sir.

Are they happy with Extra Sharp and Elementalis? Didn't saw them running these cards, but who knows...

[pyrogene]

Are they happy with Extra Sharp and Elementalis? Didn't saw them running these cards, but who knows...

You quoted Atomzed saying this:

A lot of ppl are very happy with MD, and PoTL and other new cards and have built winning decks around these cards. Any buff and they would be OP.

To respond with:

A lot of ppl happy with extra sharp and Elemetalis, new players.

If you were not referring to people running 'MD, and PoTL and other new cards' as 'new players', then your above reply was pointless.

And I'm pretty sure GOO and a lot of good players still play Elementalis. Extra sharp was never a good card and no one has argued that it was so I have no idea why you are even bringing it up.

Calling next to every new card useless and saying you have never tried them doesn't lend credibility to your argument at all.

[Demnchi]

I see nothing wrong with either Extra Sharp or Elementalis.

First off, I have played Elementalis more than any other hero. He is fine the way he his. I think he's a solid hero.

As for Extra Sharp, I see no issue with this card. From the stand point of a new player (which some cards may be designed for btw) it does two things:

-Give players a way to buff their ally to take care of stronger ones when they have no stronger option because they are new and don't have anything but the card given to them in the starter decks. (which include copies of Extra Sharp)

-Gives them a card that teaches them quickly about attachments. Learning cards can be an important part to teaching the game to someone.

I'm trying to become a game designer, so I know these things above can be important. Rather or not it was intended to do this, is irrelevant.

[Unruler]

If you were not referring to people running 'MD, and PoTL and other new cards' as 'new players', then your above reply was pointless.

You clearly misunderstood my point. I resorted to analogy with Extra Sharp and Elementalis to explain my point that opinions on the cards do differ, and you can happily play any card, however that doesn't mean that these cards are equal in terms of power, usefulness and versatility to some other cards.

Calling next to every new card useless and saying you have never tried them doesn't lend credibility to your argument at all.

I provided my considerations of why exactly do I think that presented cards are inferior to some others and tried to prove them. I don't see why do you taking my opinion so offensively and view it as highly biased and irrelevant. Yes, I didn't played much with those cards, yes, I didn't won any tournament, yes, I'm pretty decent player not involved in the competitive scene, but does that mean that my opinion does not deserve to be treated correspondingly as objective? If you do not agree with it please provide some explanation why is that exactly since I've done so. It very well might be that I don't understand something, then you need to explain it to me rather than saying: "Oh, I'm a tournament champion, if you didn't played this cards I won't even talk to you". Ok, that's doesn't sound like a most polite thing ever, you are not forced to reply to this thread if you have nothing else to say rather than nitpicking personally to OP.

[Unruler]

I see nothing wrong with either Extra Sharp or Elementalis.

First off, I have played Elementalis more than any other hero. He is fine the way he his. I think he's a solid hero.

As for Extra Sharp, I see no issue with this card. From the stand point of a new player (which some cards may be designed for btw) it does two things:

-Give players a way to buff their ally to take care of stronger ones when they have no stronger option because they are new and don't have anything but the card given to them in the starter decks. (which include copies of Extra Sharp)

-Gives them a card that teaches them quickly about attachments. Learning cards can be an important part to teaching the game to someone.

I'm trying to become a game designer, so I know these things above can be important. Rather or not it was intended to do this, is irrelevant.

As far as I'm concerned having "noob" cards is not ideal.

[Atomzed]

You clearly misunderstood my point. I resorted to analogy with Extra Sharp and Elementalis to explain my point that opinions on the cards do differ, and you can happily play any card, however that doesn't mean that these cards are equal in terms of power, usefulness and versatility to some other cards.

I provided my considerations of why exactly do I think that presented cards are inferior to some others and tried to prove them. I don't see why do you taking my opinion so offensively and view it as highly biased and irrelevant. Yes, I didn't played much with those cards, yes, I didn't won any tournament, yes, I'm pretty decent player not involved in the competitive scene, but does that mean that my opinion does not deserve to be treated correspondingly as objective? If you do not agree with it please provide some explanation why is that exactly since I've done so. It very well might be that I don't understand something, then you need to explain it to me rather than saying: "Oh, I'm a tournament champion, if you didn't played this cards I won't even talk to you". Ok, that's doesn't sound like a most polite thing ever, you are not forced to reply to this thread if you have nothing else to say rather than nitpicking personally to OP.

This should be my last post on this thread.

I respectfully agree that we can have differing opinions about the usefulness of the cards.

The problem is that many players, good players, have come in to explain in detail why they think that cards like PoTL and Molten Destroyer, are good cards.

You sweep their arguments away, and refused to accept their explanations and carry on dissing those cards.

Then you went on to say something to this effect "yah, all cards have their uses, much like how extra sharp/ elementalis are to new players. But good players will see that extra sharp/ elementalis are inferior".

Indirectly you are implying that PoTL and MD (which the good players have explained in detail how they are useful) are inferior cards, and that anyone who thinks they are good cards are just "new" players.

Pls look through the whole thread and look at people's response to you. Most responses in this thread tried to help you understand why PoTL and MD (among other cards) are useful.

[Demnchi]

As far as I'm concerned having "noob" cards is not ideal.

Keep in mind there are more factors to a game (of any kind) than just balance. Just as a quick example, because typing a full paragraph of stuff feels pointless, an important aspect of a game is the learning curve.

Hopefully that shows you my point.

[Unruler]

You sweep their arguments away, and refused to accept their explanations and carry on dissing those cards.

I accepted their arguments, admitting however that are pointing at rather niche and situational use of the cards while other cards appear to be more universal.

Then you went on to say something to this effect "yah, all cards have their uses, much like how extra sharp/ elementalis are to new players. But good players will see that extra sharp/ elementalis are inferior".

Indirectly you are implying that PoTL and MD (which the good players have explained in detail how they are useful) are inferior cards, and that anyone who thinks they are good cards are just "new" players.

You simply misunderstood me, it was an analogy to support the point that any card can be useful, any deck can win, however that doesn't mean that another deck that wins more effectively and more consistently is equal to mentioned above "fun" deck.

Pls look through the whole thread and look at people's response to you. Most responses in this thread tried to help you understand why PoTL and MD (among other cards) are useful.

I do appreciate all meaningful comments and I stated my opinion on them, I don't think that I did it in disrespectful manner, perhaps I've made mistake being too emotional here and there, but I hoped that it will make my text less boring to read, however that caused undesired attitude.

Keep in mind there are more factors to a game (of any kind) than just balance. Just as a quick example, because typing a full paragraph of stuff feels pointless, an important aspect of a game is the learning curve.

Hopefully that shows you my point.

How does inferior cards help you learn the game? Why give Extra Sharp to the new player, so he could learn by mistake that any ally buffs aren't good in current meta? Won't it cause NPE for him, and new player might as well leave and don't give any benefit to company.

That being said I want to explain now why didn't I played mentioned above cards. If I don't see direct benefit from using the card, I won't buy it because of sheer curiosity, and this is how majority of the players will behave. If the card's description is misleading (let's admit that MD, CD and Olgoth's descriptions are pretty confusing and mentioned to me benefits from using these cards are far from obvious) I can hardly understand what the card does, I can't implement it to my play easily. With PB it's simple: do the math and figure out that this ally can deal most damage per turn without any buffs. So if I can't see usefulness of the cards I won't buy them, won't spent my gold on them or shadow crystals and so on. Therein lies the problem and that's why I think that DT should try their best to make cards more attractive without ruining the balance. It is extremely tricky, but well worth it.

[Preybird]

As far as I'm concerned having "noob" cards is not ideal.

So what did you do when you were "noob"? I certainly used those cards, and won games with them. As I grow as a player, so does my decklist. Sure, I wouldn't touch Extra Sharp now, but I have seen it used. I got torn apart by a very skilled player (not naming names) on test, using...... Extra Sharp and Elementalis.