[SF]Garth - BP Shadow Mann's 80-card MONSTER Garth

[FDL]

I had some fun with VO in a 100 card garth deck a few months ago. My sense is 1-2 copies can work ok, but they work cross-purposes to the rest of the deck. This deck works on the principle that nearly every card you draw can immediately impact the board, stall or draw you more cards. Its like a relentless and growing wave. VO, by itself is a weak play, it slows you down when you play it and when you use it. Compare to alr, which can turn a disabled ally ino an immediate major threat, or compare it to draw, which allows you to leave your allies on board and just keep playing more.

Agreed.

VO is weak is a specialized deck. I can't see it being more effective in a less focused deck.

Also, I've already told this to bob, but Shadow Mann, I hate your guts for making this work! It makes me tilt whenever I see it work. It's not SUPPOSED to work!

[Nijjis]

First of all bp shadow Mann is a really good player and the deck is rock solid. That being said... I don't know how much the meta has to do with his success but if I had to guess, the fact that mages are not all the rage anymore helps. Fat zhana doesn't see much play either. The right Mage deck is probably its worst matchup, but even then garth has a punchers chance because it can handle everything but a Mage rush. I'd guess wulven falls into that 50/50 category with priests and a mirror matchup.

[Shadow Mann]

Awesome deck, Shadow Mann! I have a question. What do you think about Vozitian Orders ? Can it replace ALR in this deck, especially with many on-summon ability allies in this deck?

You could add 1-2xVO (and cut something else), but I wouldn't replace ALR with it (and personally I don't want the tempo loss for VO)

[Shadow Mann]

agreed.

Vo is weak is a specialized deck. I can't see it being more effective in a less focused deck.

Also, i've already told this to bob, but shadow mann, i hate your guts for making this work! it makes me tilt whenever i see it work. It's not supposed to work!

lol

[Nijjis]

First of all bp shadow Mann is a really good player and the deck is rock solid. That being said... I don't know how much the meta has to do with his success but if I had to guess, the fact that mages are not all the rage anymore helps. Fat zhana doesn't see much play either. The right Mage deck is probably its worst matchup, but even then garth has a punchers chance because it can handle everything but a Mage rush. I'd guess wulven falls into that 50/50 category with priests and a mirror matchup.

Right now you're seeing an abundance of hunters and a good amount of warriors which offer great matchups. Also lots of rogue decks. Rogues often excel in a protracted struggle but his deck is 80 cards so put a pin in that. I'm sure BP has never been in a rogue matchup he didn't like before the hands are dealt.

Oops didn't mean to double post but it's not deleting for some reason.

[Shadow Mann]

First of all bp shadow Mann is a really good player and the deck is rock solid. That being said... I don't know how much the meta has to do with his success but if I had to guess, the fact that mages are not all the rage anymore helps. Fat zhana doesn't see much play either. The right Mage deck is probably its worst matchup, but even then garth has a punchers chance because it can handle everything but a Mage rush. I'd guess wulven falls into that 50/50 category with priests and a mirror matchup.

Right now you're seeing an abundance of hunters and a good amount of warriors which offer great matchups. Also lots of rogue decks. Rogues often excel in a protracted struggle but his deck is 80 cards so put a pin in that. I'm sure BP has never been in a rogue matchup he didn't like before the hands are dealt.

It is able to handle the mage rush as well (but may need to draw certain cards to help in that matchup)...seductress, sword thief, shuriken, spelleater bands, priest of the light, honored dead to name a few).

[bobrossw]

First of all bp shadow Mann is a really good player and the deck is rock solid. That being said... I don't know how much the meta has to do with his success but if I had to guess, the fact that mages are not all the rage anymore helps. Fat zhana doesn't see much play either. The right Mage deck is probably its worst matchup, but even then garth has a punchers chance because it can handle everything but a Mage rush. I'd guess wulven falls into that 50/50 category with priests and a mirror matchup.

This deck is actually solid vs mage rush. As Shadow Mann said before, it has excellent odds of getting a solid anti-rush opening. It also has a potential to gain health with some cards (honored dead and PoTL). If you get first turn advantage against a mage rush, you can actually rush them, and if you get their health down 10 below your own, it becomes very tough to use supernova. Even without that, the deck has decent odds against mages.

[Nijjis]

Fine, everything but a loest rush. But even if it is not loest., unless you had three spell eaters you couldn't reasonably expect to see one in a short game. It would of course come down to skill level, luck, and deck composition per usual. If I had to guess you are the better player in most of your games. And based on the meta possibly facing favorable Mage matchups. Aramia and Gravebone I would assume offer decent matchups because they tend to include less burn and more allies/items.

I'm not doubting that you could still win half those games vs mage rush. You got the cheap allies to score points early and slow down their attack. It also protects you from bad Santa which is huge. And if you play first with a good hand (and the deck draws suprisingly well so plenty of good hands) an IGG and a ankle breaker for example, you have to like your chances.

I do think however if this deck caught fire and more people were using it and were accustomed to playing against it.. You would lose a few extra games.

All in all possibly the best quick match deck currently.

[Shadow Mann]

Fine, everything but a loest rush. But even if it is not loest., unless you had three spell eaters you couldn't reasonably expect to see one in a short game. It would of course come down to skill level, luck, and deck composition per usual. If I had to guess you are the better player in most of your games. And based on the meta possibly facing favorable Mage matchups. Aramia and Gravebone I would assume offer decent matchups because they tend to include less burn and more allies/items.

I'm not doubting that you could still win half those games vs mage rush. You got the cheap allies to score points early and slow down their attack. It also protects you from bad Santa which is huge. And if you play first with a good hand (and the deck draws suprisingly well so plenty of good hands) an IGG and a ankle breaker for example, you have to like your chances.

Loest was VERY hard when amulet was OP...but as long as you keep up draw, Loest isn't that bad. Even though you can't rely on SEB to save you (just means keep your PotL and HD to regain health instead)

[Nijjis]

I don't see that the extra 7 health you might get if you found 3 potl and two honored dead is necessarily going to be the biggest deciding factor. The bigger factors could be that the game has lasted this long which favors you, and that you were able to keep your board intact on a few extra turns by playing potl. If I'm able to play half my burn to your hero which I'll admit is maybe a bit of a stretch.. That's 19-24 damage depending on whether I'm using 3 or 4 nova.

Lol I bet those 11-16 damage points I need to score with my allies are actually very hard to come by unless I go kris puwen aldon. Etc. Touché shadowmann.

I take it that SEB is among the cards you added to your 90 card version?