New Ally Mechanic

[maxi1230]

I guess the game really needs some kind of that mechanic but for god's sake don't give Moonstalker access to it!

[jonmaciel]

Well, for the sake of logic, they wouldnt work; these on summon effects are abilities of these allies and targeting other allies (as of i know).
For the sake of balance, obviously is the other way around.

IMHO this ability (stopping targeted abilities of any kind) is a really strong one. Which means an ally having it have to be overcosted for its atk/health values. Which means it will most likely to be inferior to other allies in combat. Which means it will be LOT less useful dropped on a contested (not to mention lost) board than a controlled one (and even then is threatened by things like nova or devourer due to its most likely relatively low health). I see this ally as an opposite to "versatile" and a fairly weak one.

However, lets say it has an ability like:
"(insert keyword here): This ally cant be targeted by ability cards and abilities activated by shadow energy." (or even leaving the second part as we have disciple for it). This, as a weaker ability allows the ally to have higher atk/healt values for its cost while be still resistant to hard removal like MC and the like (which resistance can be countered by m.acolyte or l.diplomat) hence making it more versatile and overally stronger/more balanced in my opinion.

just my 1 cent (i spent the other one on pot)

peace

I guess that comes down to the balance of the allies. The ability you put in, in my opinion, is actually stronger than my suggestion since you can still have heroes like Tala and Elementalis or allies like Aeon buff them even further. Meaning diplomat/acolyte would be the only counters to that. It creates more of a balance issue that way I think.

The strength of the ally would have to be determined by testing, really no other way to figure it out. The only ally we have close for comparison is Disciple of Aldmor but even that is only hero abilities.

I guess the game really needs some kind of that mechanic but for god's sake don't give Moonstalker access to it!

That would mean a combination of human only and specific class allies. But yes, MS would be really annoying with an ally like that! I mean, unless you can do something simple and say "Allies with Deflect cannot have stealth." All those users of Cover of Night would be really disappointed. ;-)

[FunkyGandalf]

I guess that comes down to the balance of the allies. The ability you put in, in my opinion, is actually stronger than my suggestion since you can still have heroes like Tala and Elementalis or allies like Aeon buff them even further. Meaning diplomat/acolyte would be the only counters to that. It creates more of a balance issue that way I think.

I appreciate ur reply and totally agree with u about this it just didnt come to my mind; however it could be solved by adding an extra line about it cant be targeted by its controller. It might make the definition too complex/little bit confusing though.
And as it could (obviously ) only be in a new set with a whole bunch of other new cards then we could have new allies/items with similar abilities as diplomat/acolyte.
Feel free to correct me if i missed (again) something important.

peace

[jonmaciel]

I added the extra stipulation about stealth because one can easily see that'll be quickly abused as was already pointed out.

I appreciate ur reply and totally agree with u about this it just didnt come to my mind; however it could be solved by adding an extra line about it cant be targeted by its controller. It might make the definition too complex/little bit confusing though.
And as it could (obviously ) only be in a new set with a whole bunch of other new cards then we could have new allies/items with similar abilities as diplomat/acolyte.
Feel free to correct me if i missed (again) something important.

peace

Yes once we've added that extra condition...the only thing left is ally abilities. I figured it'd be easier just to say "can't be targeted by abilities" then let balancing and the meta figure out the rest.

[FunkyGandalf]

Yes once we've added that extra condition...the only thing left is ally abilities. I figured it'd be easier just to say "can't be targeted by abilities" then let balancing and the meta figure out the rest.

Well, i have to admit that if given set will only get half the time period for testing than SF that would me more then enough for balancing a thing like this perfectly, starting from the simplest approach . I just thought that an ability like that probably needs to have some counters besides boardwipes (which a good bunch of heroes dont have access) or having a strong board position already to take that ally out in combat.
I agree with u that one obviously cant be sure about such a thing without substantial testing. I just throwing thoughts around cuz i really like and 'am interested about ur idea.

peace

[jonmaciel]

My guess is you're right that allies with it couldn't be too strong...something like 3cc 2/5 or 4cc 3/5 or 5cc 3/6 would be what i would consider. Something that has "stickiness" but is killable by opp allies/weapons if they got them out.

[FunkyGandalf]

The further i think about it the more i like ur original idea over mine; i was thinking about possible counters when the seldomly (if ever) used couple of The Bigger They Are / The Harder They Fall crossed my mind. The Deflect ability alone probably wont justify their use but i guess more cards could be created using a somewhat similar "triggering" mechanic to compass targeting.

[Ekoz]

this ability has been brought up several times in the past by tons of people: i've "used" a variant of it in my fan made card set (link in signature) under the name Negation.

i think the fact that it has repeatedly been requested since before the original card set was even complete stands as a testament to how good of an idea it is.

+1 to this idea.

[tman507]

Would be a cool ability, although I'd imagine any allies with it would have to be fairly weak in other ways to balance it.

And off the actual thread topic, but an idea for another new mechanic: Pierce: If this ally kills an opposing ally in combat, the difference between this ally's attack and the opposing ally's health is dealt as damage to that opposing ally's controller.

A bit wordy, could probably be cleaned up by the DT, just a thought since I've always wanted to see a sort of Piercing/Trample effect in SE.

[Ekoz]

Would be a cool ability, although I'd imagine any allies with it would have to be fairly weak in other ways to balance it.

And off the actual thread topic, but an idea for another new mechanic: Pierce: If this ally kills an opposing ally in combat, the difference between this ally's attack and the opposing ally's health is dealt as damage to that opposing ally's controller.

A bit wordy, could probably be cleaned up by the DT, just a thought since I've always wanted to see a sort of Piercing/Trample effect in SE.

cleaning up the wording a bit...

"If this ally deals more damage in combat than the health of a target ally, the difference is dealt to the enemy hero."

the problem with this is it's not true trample in this wording as you stated it, because it's dealing the damage as accessory damage: not an additional combat phase.

if that's the way you meant it, then ok. but if you wanted true trample, you'd have to stipulate that the ally engages combat instead of saying it deals damage.

additionally, you could throw in some keywords to shorten the wording even further (of course, those keywords themselves would have to be explained in a rulebook or something):

"If this ally overkills an enemy ally, leftover damage is dealt to the enemy hero."