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  1. #11
    Member Mananexus's Avatar
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    I think there are multiple options on how to handle the problem of old set cards beeing too good. The ones that seem super obvious to me are:
    - don't change cards, but bring USEFULL counters that can easily be implemented in a good deck that doesn't destroy the flow and have multiple usages
    - ban certain cards (Yu-gi-oh)
    - give that cards an erata (Yu-gi-oh), means to nerf the cards later on and give a reprint

    I highly respect Kyle for wanting his own printed cards (I mean who wouldn't love that), but changing cards would make it an easy way. Still I would be fine with just getting goid counter cards to the named above (e.g. Soulreaper, ITF or LayLow).

    For me I see buffing old cards a little problematic. I would fear that the development would be even slower than now, cause old cards get constant buffs and nerfs as well. For me personally I would be okay with more sets coming and giving more answers...still I fear some sort of power-creep (all these Yu-gi-oh terms lol). I like the style of ShadowEra beeing a balanced game that tries not to have insanely good cards. I hope it will stay like that.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wimbled View Post
    I think that several cards merit a change or even a ban.

    Soul reaper, it's very annoying. At least make it 4cc so that it can't be recycled with mimic. Elemental mirrors are a nightmare, a guildmate just posted a screenshot of his 57 min(!) Zal vs Prax game. That kind of games shouldn't be possible, they are a huge waste of time and energy. Multiple SR, multiple Renewal etc. It just sucks.

    ITF, there is no space in the game for this card. Only used by NPE decks. Players will enjoy the game better if this card gets banned.

    Lay low, same as above.

    Rain delay.

    I have been playing Eternal Scrolls Legends too, a really mediocre game when compared to Era but I haven't faced a single NPE deck (a couple that were on the line, and some ultra rush which I don't consider NPE). The devs destroy NPE with fire. Here we just debate these same cards that are max 5 till eternity. If you want to find new players, please consider banning the worst NPE cards. NPE is just so clearly bad business and it makes the game much less enjoyable for 95% of the players, veterans and new players alike. NPE fiesta leads to heavy use of rush mages which people tend to dislike too (not me).
    I still don't understand the distinction between an NPE deck and a deck that the person in question just doesn't like because the decks they play have a bad matchup against it. A lot of people say stall/mill decks are NPE, which I at least get - it's not much fun to play a long game where your loss is pretty much inevitable, although personally I think those are valid strategies. But you're describing Into the Forest as NPE. Mostly I see this played with Gwen, and she'll generally kill you fairly quickly by largely ignoring your allies and going straight for your hero (I guess you also see it with Skervox, but they're usually running bigger decks where they can't pull them out as consistently, and seeing a good Skervox is pretty rare). There is also a counter available to everyone in the form of Groundshift (which also counters Lay Low). Don't get me wrong, Gwen decks are very powerful, but I don't see why they're NPE.

    As for the actual topic of the thread, I would love to see some of the older alllies get some love so they're more useful. The only card that maaaybe I'd want to see nerfed is Soul Reaper. Having it all but guaranteed (courtesy of mimic) that you have to essentially kill your opponent twice is pretty nuts, especially in conjunction with the damage absorption of Armor of Ages, Praxis's mill ability, and Energy Discharge.

  3. #13
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    making new cards to balance out old cards seem like a hit or miss to me.
    for example, you can make abilities like groundshift that can completely nulify a hero ability (moonstalker) and still be good against many other situations (itf). And then there are cards like curse of aldmor that don't see much play as they are a waste of card slot however good an answer it may be to soul reaper.

    so imo, bringing new cards to nerf the old ones will only create more problems in the future. either they'll be too good to completely wipe out a viable strategy or too bad to even be included in one's library let alone one's deck.

    if it is possible, please consider redoing old cards to make the player experience better than it currently is. i mean soul reaper is just crazy op. and this comes from a guy who is a zal main.

    also there are so many play styles that are just not fair competition in my opinion. a 60 card prax that can heal so many times with reaper and mimic is an example. heores that don't have immediate attack buff or direct damage capability struggle so much vs this play style. it's no way near op, but it's not fair either. especially when they can deal with my allies rather easily when i have to keep the board in control on one hand and struggle to not deck out on the other.

    another example of unfair playstyle is cancer vess with coating. again, heroes with direct damage capability or that can go solo to some degree have a fair chance vs them, but majority of heroes that depend on allies do struggle quite a lot vs the armour/coating/haste combo. you can say it is not easy to pull off, but judjing from how many times i had to deal with it, i really think it's not that hard. plus having hammer and evil ascendant along with one of the most underrated heal card of the game (rampage) is a cherry on top for this playstyle. the +1 durability from the armor is also something that adds up.
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  4. #14
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    I'd like to see 1 of 2 thungs happen, either changes old cards so they'll be more played ( because honestly I miss a variety) or make ll3 have cards that make old cards compatible with it. Or a good 3rd option would be to just erase cards that no one ever plays now like change of fortune never seen anyone use that

  5. #15
    Europe Regional (Winter 2012) Champion jacqui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsanoMango View Post
    Bottom line is that there are many cards that could use a buff (Katrin the Shieldmaden, Zoe Silversmith, Sandra Trueblade, Cobra Demon, Keldor... unless we always want him only good for jokes) or nerf (Evil Ascendant, Rain Delay, Soul Reaper, Armor of Ages, Blood Frenzy... I love warriors more than anyone but dam... 3cc one time cost for draw?) to freshen up the game in between new releases.
    Old cards do not need to be touched to "freshen up the game." The solution to freshening up the game is to release new cards not to change old ones. None of the cards you listed are even problematic.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Kylt's Avatar
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    You've all seen the rise of Shadowspawn, right?
    Any cards can shine when the time is right.

    Exception is when we make strictly better cards. Weevil-tipped crossbow is strictly better than Old Iron Dagger so something needs to be done here.
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  7. #17
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    Its funny that some people are against buffing old cards.
    I have never seen shieldmaiden used but you dont wanna buff it which is easy btw so it can see some play.
    No developement etc required, instant usable devoped card.
    And for everyone who sais to ban cards or come out with new cards is not an excuse to let this game stagnate.
    Also no card in the future is going to make shieldmaiden usable ever. Buffs are needed.

  8. #18
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Yes, Im brining it up... Allow buffs/nerfs for old cards!

    Well I'm happy to see some decent discussion above so the thread has to be considered a success. Thanks to all who contributed so far!

    But please can we not get too attached to pushing for specific Solutions when surely first the specific Problems should be understood. I read reasons for changing old cards but there are other ways to achieve same thing at less cost and more effectively. I don't believe the full picture has been taken into account based on some posts above, but that's why we have a Board of Directors here. We listen to all voices and look from all angles and all levels.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    Well I'm happy to see some decent discussion above so the thread has to be considered a success. Thanks to all who contributed so far!

    But please can we not get too attached to pushing for specific Solutions when surely first the specific Problems should be understood. I read reasons for changing old cards but there are other ways to achieve same thing at less cost and more effectively. I don't believe the full picture has been taken into account based on some posts above, but that's why we have a Board of Directors here. We listen to all voices and look from all angles and all levels.
    Do you have examples to your words?

    Problem is there are many shieldmaiden cards which are useless.
    What is your solution besides buffing them.

  10. #20
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fristar View Post
    Do you have examples to your words?

    Problem is there are many shieldmaiden cards which are useless.
    What is your solution besides buffing them.
    1) Is that actually a problem?
    2) What harm is Katrin doing?
    3) Is there anything good about having cards like that.
    4) How high on our list should addressing this be?
    5) What new problems does your "solution" introduce and at what cost will it come to implement?

    The answer to 1-4 are easy, and the last is an unknown and really not worth delving into given the other answers.

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