Eladwen Nerf

Heres an idea:

Why not nerf Eladwen's ability to only freeze the target ally for 1 turn (as opposed to 2).

-she's over-powered and everybody knows it (the statistics back this up as well).

I know some people will say "Oh you can't do that because of the physicals blah, blah, blah" -but why should that matter? -if anything it rewards players who have spent their hard-earned cash on 'pre-nerf' cards and gives serious players/collectors an incentive to own them.


*puts helmet on and ducks below parapet*

I was gonna respond, but I'm going to grab popcorn instead ...

Good luck with that one, Dave :)

Pandevmonium might back you up though!

Do you know what else needs nerf?

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Originally Posted by Unruler

Do you know what else needs nerf?

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Firesnake, the most OP card ever, in any game

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Originally Posted by Dave163

-if anything it rewards players who have spent their hard-earned cash on 'pre-nerf' cards and gives serious players/collectors an incentive to own them.

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Puts too much of a disadvantage on players who cannot own an non-errata version an edge. Plus I don't think erratas work that way. Erratas would be applied to all prints on the card regardless of what the card says. Much like all the cards that have had an errata in Yu-g-oh that changed the name or fixed a major typo/misprint.

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What the shit?

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Originally Posted by Kyle

Most Used Hero: Eladwen. But her win rate is normal and balanced at 51%. And even though she's the most used, you only see her in 10% of games, so there's an incredible variety of decks being used.

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Oh yeah, Eladwen is so terribly OP, we have to nerf her or no other hero will ever be viable.

If you know the answer why did you bother creating this thread? Damn trolls are everywhere...

in my last SLUGFEST. 17 out of 64 players used Eladwen. she was played in 56 games throughout and got an exact win rate of 50% this is not OP.

the highest win rate in the whole thing (not counting Logan who won 2 games and lost 1 :p ) was Majiya. 29 out of 64 players used her. she was played in 69 games and won 37 for 55.2% win rate

thar's ya OP right thar :p

Eladwen is already banned in my BHYDL tournament. So there's no need to nerf it!

She doesn't need nerfing. Kyle's stats (which Warr Byrd posted) prove that. Not only that she's no where near as common in QM anymore due to the rise of Amber and Banebow.

Every hero has it's good and bad matchups. If you keep losing to Eladwen I suggest you look at your hero choice.

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Originally Posted by Helio

If you know the answer why did you bother creating this thread? Damn trolls are everywhere...

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I don't understand? -what do you mean 'If I know the answer'? -it was a suggestion, in a forum where players are free to put forward ideas. Theoretically the only "answer" would be a definite yes or no from a senior dev?

I created this thread because I think its a viable solution for what I perceive to be a problem (-I may be wrong but every player is entitled to an opinion, including those of us with Honours Degrees in Games Design). I would propose that people like yourself, who go out of their way to accuse people of being trolls are actually trolling.

Please feel free not to comment on any of my posts, i can assure you you won't be missed.

People would not call you a troll if you bothered to provide some actual arguments.


And no, "she's overpowered" doesn't stand up to anything.

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Originally Posted by Airact

People would not call you a troll if you bothered to provide some actual arguments.


And no, "she's overpowered" doesn't stand up to anything.

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Eladwen needs nerf because

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY

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Originally Posted by Dave163

-she's over-powered and everybody knows it (the statistics back this up as well).

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Actually, as I previously noted, the stats do not back this up.

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Originally Posted by Dave163

I know some people will say "Oh you can't do that because of the physicals blah, blah, blah" -but why should that matter? -if anything it rewards players who have spent their hard-earned cash on 'pre-nerf' cards and gives serious players/collectors an incentive to own them.

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Given that, currently, the other printed but non-tournament legal cards are worth exactly diddly-squat, I'm not sure how much rewarding there would be when they would be spending money to get the new version and never get anything back for the old.

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Originally Posted by Dave163

I don't understand? -what do you mean 'If I know the answer'? -it was a suggestion, in a forum where players are free to put forward ideas. Theoretically the only "answer" would be a definite yes or no from a senior dev?

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Kyle and the Design Team have already said no.

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Originally Posted by Dave163

I created this thread because I think its a viable solution for what I perceive to be a problem (-I may be wrong but every player is entitled to an opinion, including those of us with Honours Degrees in Games Design). I would propose that people like yourself, who go out of their way to accuse people of being trolls are actually trolling.

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I think it's safe to say that your opinion is wrong, even if you do have a degree in game design like some of the other people who have commented here or re participating in The Wulven Apprentice (actually, I think most of those were on the team that lost this past week, which goes to show how much good that degree does you).

sigh...

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Originally Posted by Warr Byrd

Actually, as I previously noted, the stats do not back this up.

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The stats show she wins more than she loses. Kyle only gives her stats as an example in that post so its impossible to judge just how good she is (one thing is for sure- she isn't bad). If she isn't OP why is she the most used hero? there are 20 heros so 10% is at least double the average (this is the stat I was referring to).
Anyway, I base my assumption on years of play experience, not because I've just happened to lose a few matches against her or because of those particular stats.

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Originally Posted by Warr Byrd

Given that, currently, the other printed but non-tournament legal cards are worth exactly diddly-squat, I'm not sure how much rewarding there would be when they would be spending money to get the new version and never get anything back for the old.

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-I don't understand this, you are saying that kids who play wouldn't want the old OP card & also that all old editions are worthless? (if somebody wants to send me their old CotC physical collection I'd be more than willing to pay the postage fee!)

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Originally Posted by Warr Byrd

Kyle and the Design Team have already said no.

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-what exactly are you talking about? if you are referring to this thread I believe Gondo' declined to comment.

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Originally Posted by Warr Byrd

I think it's safe to say that your opinion is wrong, even if you do have a degree in game design like some of the other people who have commented here or re participating in The Wulven Apprentice (actually, I think most of those were on the team that lost this past week, which goes to show how much good that degree does you).

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I think you are confusing design with tactics -an easy mistake to make for somebody with your obviously limited intelligence?

I'm all for discussions, but please keep it civil.

While it is true we currently see absolutely no reason to nerf Eladwen, it's still nice to hear dissenting opinions and the counters against those opinions. IT's not so nice to see insults about one another's intelligence.

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Originally Posted by Dave163

I think you are confusing design with tactics -an easy mistake to make for somebody with your obviously limited intelligence?

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And with this..... any discussion is lost.

Insulting Warr Byrd is not the way to go, particularly since he's one of the more knowledgable here around nuances of the game.

Besides, I think you're confusing overpowered with overused. Remember Eladwen is one of the easiest heroes to pick up, cheap to build for, and available at the very beginning. Those three simple facts will skew usage stats. Win rate determines power level. If a hero is winning 75% of the time over such a large sample size there is something wrong, not if they're winning 51% of the time.

I generally recommend 2 heroes to new players who come to me via my channel: Eladwen or Boris. Since they are by far the easiest to start with. (and they generally end up choosing eladwen 3/4ths of the time)

The deal is, if anyone researches a little bit before starting, they'll almost always choose one of these 2, skewing the results - and since Eladwen is talked about much more on the forums, this skews it even further in that direction (especially the number of references to Elad Rush and her supposed being "OP" - Boris Rush is a bit less efficient due to a lack of direct hero damage outside of weapons, but he is much better at the mid/late-game board control)

Eladwen likely has a bell-curve win-rate based on rank ( low 'low rank' wins, high 'mid rank' wins, low 'high rank' wins) due to how she plays, and skill levels of players (and deck qualities of the people playing eladwen and opposing eladwen in those ranks). This is generally how it is with Aggro decks in most TCGs (Goblins are a great example from MtG) - ultra-newbies just go to it because it's easy to grasp, but lose games in low ranks due to 'newbie mistakes', they then get better and move into mid-ranks and can get easy wins by practicing their fast rush, but then they get up to the high-ranks where people know how to answer high-aggro decks (and then they fail to pull out the consistent wins, usually resulting in reevaluation of their deck choices lol)

IMO, Eladwen is most played because Eladwen deck is cheap, not because of OPness.
p.s. feel free to comment my too obviously limited intelligence. But you have to love my new avatar!

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Originally Posted by Dave163

The stats show she wins more than she loses. Kyle only gives her stats as an example in that post so its impossible to judge just how good she is (one thing is for sure- she isn't bad). If she isn't OP why is she the most used hero? there are 20 heros so 10% is at least double the average (this is the stat I was referring to).
Anyway, I base my assumption on years of play experience, not because I've just happened to lose a few matches against her or because of those particular stats.

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Actually, 10% is the exact number of times you expect any hero to appear in a match. There are 20 heroes. Assuming they are all played equally, each one has a 5% chance of being used by any given player. There are two players in a match. So she would show up in the 5% of matches she would be used by Player One, and the 5% of matches she was being used by Player Two. 10% total.

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Originally Posted by Dave163

-I don't understand this, you are saying that kids who play wouldn't want the old OP card & also that all old editions are worthless? (if somebody wants to send me their old CotC physical collection I'd be more than willing to pay the postage fee!)

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If you care to search, there are several places where people state that if a card can't be used in a tournament, then it is worthless and will never gain value. If they'll continue to be right ten years down the road, that remains to be seen. Actually, better idea: see if you can find the guy with the old Eladwen and ask how much he expects he would be able to sell it for. I can't remember who it was off the top of my head, but they got a test print of the Mage deck before Wulven finalized the cards, including Eladwen when her ability didn't freeze but could target the hero.

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Originally Posted by Dave163

-what exactly are you talking about? if you are referring to this thread I believe Gondo' declined to comment.

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Kyle and the Design Team have said on numerous occasions that none of the Call of the Crystals cards will be changed, nor will any other cards once they are finalized. If you think you deserve a special statement from them, get off your high horse.

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Originally Posted by Dave163

I think you are confusing design with tactics -an easy mistake to make for somebody with your obviously limited intelligence?

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If Eladwen, or any other card, is OP, then it is because of bad design. If Eladwen, or any other card, performs well in the hands of talented players, then it is because of tactics. If you are going to design a game, you need to have a good grasp of both. The team that lost last week Wulven Apprentice did well designing based on tactics, most if not all their cards worked very well together. However, some of them were poorly designed in that they were OP when compared to cards of similar type.

LOL at this thread.
Hey bro if u wanted a serious answer from the beginning you should have posted your perception as your own opinion and not as a reassured statement or fact .
the truth is that even if she were op like u claim, the change u suggest wouldn't change anything about it

T1 Kris
T2 Puwen / ToK
T3 Aldon / PotL
T4 FB/ LS/ BS/ TO + SE ability
T5 SN/ DoU <- at this point, nth can stay on board
T6 whatever what ur opp cast, keep on burning...till the end, even dun care ended with draw.

People call this golden rush...but actually it's quite often to happen for a Eladwen rush deck.

Is she a nice hero?
Yes

Is she easy to use?
Partly yes, partly no.

Does she need to be nerfed?
I think..No, sometimes she really depends on luck, you got no chance when facing her golden rush,
but once you get survive from her rush (or she couldn't rush you as she had a bad draw), you got chance to take the game back.
As others said, every hero have his/her bad match-up.

Do I hate Eladwen?
DEFINATELY YES, even I have a foil of her, still, I dun want to play with her.
(But I have to admit that I sometimes use her in MD...LOL)

Eladwen is OP because she is uglier than Majiya, period.

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Originally Posted by Maven of Strings

Eladwen is OP because she is uglier than Majiya, period.

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You Sir have obviously not cast your gaze on Eladwen's alternate art.

When C.o.t.C. was finalized I admit I thought Eldawen was O.P. at first (my initial thought was that she should do 1 pt. less damage). After playing with and against her between the finalization of C.o.t.C. till release of D.P. I quickly realized that she is not. With the release of D.P. I pity her in comparison to Majiya. Shadow mages have access to some real nasty cards that boost mage burn dramatically. Plasma Behemoth, Death Mage Thaddeus, Furrion Terror etc.), the only thing Edawen can do better than Majiya is rush because of the protectors, Cover of Night and retreat. I'm surprised that the discussion of Eldawen being O.P. has started again ...

@Sir Bhleg laughs at this in your sig:
"I'll never play Shadow Era again, becasue I can't beat the Fire Snake..." - Chuck Norris

But I always felt people calling F.S. O.P. was just silly ...

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Originally Posted by highmystica

@Sir Bhleg laughs at this in your sig:
"I'll never play Shadow Era again, becasue I can't beat the Fire Snake..." - Chuck Norris

But I always felt people calling F.S. O.P. was just silly ...

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I am glad that someone read it...LOL
and YES, trolling is damn silly but at the same time, it is damn funny too! Troll rocks!

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Originally Posted by Sir Bhleg

I am glad that someone read it...LOL
and YES, trolling is damn silly but at the same time, it is damn funny too! Troll rocks!

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You betrayed Unruler by calling thinking FS is OP troll!!!!

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Originally Posted by Preybird

You Sir have obviously not cast your gaze on Eladwen's alternate art.

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Aye

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Originally Posted by Index

You betrayed Unruler by calling thinking FS is OP troll!!!!

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OH NO, I am trolling with Chunk Norris only, not FS, FS is as OP as written in the history.

Please forgive my misleading. My lord. *kneed, with hats off

Attachment 4575

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Originally Posted by Preybird

And with this..... any discussion is lost.

Insulting Warr Byrd is not the way to go, particularly since he's one of the more knowledgable here around nuances of the game.

Besides, I think you're confusing overpowered with overused. Remember Eladwen is one of the easiest heroes to pick up, cheap to build for, and available at the very beginning. Those three simple facts will skew usage stats. Win rate determines power level. If a hero is winning 75% of the time over such a large sample size there is something wrong, not if they're winning 51% of the time.

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did NO ONE read my post??? its 50%. get your facts straight, sheesh.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn0

did NO ONE read my post??? its 50%. get your facts straight, sheesh.

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I had 67% win ratio during Slugfest using Eladwen, if other players can't use her well it's their problem. She's OP, Wulven cheat on her stats :P
But if we wanna keep teaching new players to just ignore the board and burn their oppos down, ok, let's keep mages this way.

If ppl think Elad is OP n often see her, they just use BB, Baduruu, n Amber. Then, they win most of the time. Maybe it's 70% or something like that. Elad is easy to play; however, she doesn't need any nerf coz there r good againsts for her, especially after DP released:)

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Originally Posted by Sir Bhleg

OH NO, I am trolling with Chunk Norris only, not FS, FS is as OP as written in the history.

Please forgive my misleading. My lord. *kneed, with hats off

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Who's Chunk Norris?

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Originally Posted by Bobbypim

Who's Chunk Norris?

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Wasn't he in The Goonies?

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Originally Posted by Bobbypim

Who's Chunk Norris?

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Arr...I mean Chuck Narris...LOL

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Originally Posted by Gondorian

Wasn't he in The Goonies?

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LMAO

To be honest i have never seen a post of yours that wasn't complaining about a card that 'needs' nerfing.

And personally i disagree. Never had problems facing Eladwen and don't think she's overpowered. To me an OP hero would be one i could pick and win the vast majority of my games against any other hero. This obviously isn't Eladwen, she is an easy win with at least a third of the heroes.

Lastly don't appreciate the fact you resort to insults when providing some kind of argument would do better to have your point heard. Getting aggressive just makes you look like the kinda guy who gets shitty when beaten and comes here to complain

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Originally Posted by Bobbypim

Who's Chunk Norris?

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Chunk Norris is what left of Chuck Norris after he met firesnake!

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Originally Posted by Jeniva

To be honest i have never seen a post of yours that wasn't complaining about a card that 'needs' nerfing.

Lastly don't appreciate the fact you resort to insults when providing some kind of argument would do better to have your point heard. Getting aggressive just makes you look like the kinda guy who gets shitty when beaten and comes here to complain

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But I didn't create this thread to argue, I was just proposing a fix. If I was trolling I would have posted something along the lines of: "Nerf that b****, shes ****ing OP. mages suck" etc etc (which I clearly didn't). Why can I not propose a minor re-balancing tweak without being patronized and accused of being a troll? perhaps your etiquette criticism should be directed at those people instead?

Anyway, if I remember correctly only 3 of my threads have been about balancing issues (incidentally my thread with the most views is my "2 loses in 22 games" Eladwen rush deck). I thought my card suggestion was a good one (certain aspects of which I see are also incorporated into the new Legendary Hero) -I dont moan all the time....

Anyway, I have come up with a fix: Double all the figures in the game... Warrior hero's have 60 starting health, 4 damage from a Dimension ripper, Fire Snake does 2 damage, The King's Pride costs 14 to cast etc etc. Now the devs can fine tune the balancing (make the equivalent of +/-0.5 changes).

If they did this the devs could: nerf direct damage by 1 (the equivalent of a -0.5 nerf using the currant system) and/or decrease mage health by the equivalent -0.5. Increase the cost of Mind Control, Tidal Wave, Zhanna Mist's, Zaladar's, and Moonstalker's abilities by +1.

The list could go on and theres no denying that many cards would benefit from this kind of fine tuning.