Dual-class Heroes

Here is my idea for new heroes: Dual-class heroes, which means heroes who belong to two classes. In other words, they give access to a wider variety of cards in one deck, because you can include cards of, say, the Rogue and the Mage class.

Examples:

Luna Silverpelt
Shadow Wulven + Priest
3: All Wulven allies are healed 3 damage
"The song of her howling gives strength to our people."

Red Mist
Human Ninja (Rogue + Mage)
3: All cards played this turn are placed face-down on the board.
(Face down cards are turned around after they are used the first time - when allies attack or are attacked, when an item is used etc.)
"When you can see him, you are already dead."

Ahruman
Shadow Bishop (Mage + Priest)
4: Return target spell from your graveyard to your hand
"Now I am the master."

Silent Eye
Shadow Ninja (Rogue + Mage)
5: Reduce opponent ressources and increase your own ressources by one each.
"I am merely waiting for you to defeat yourself."

Thalwyn Whitecross
Human Paladin (Warrior + Priest)
3: Armor you wear gains +1 defense and durability
"Stand back, heathens."

Garan Greenstaff
Human Druid (Hunter + Mage)
4: Friendly allies gain +1 attack and ambush for one turn
"The fierce anger of the wild, feel it!"

Sparkmother
Shadow Elemental + Priest
3: Summon Ghost Spark
(This puts a spark ally on the board without playing the card. If this spark is destroyed, no card is put in the graveyard)
"She is the source from which we are born."

Eric Thundersson
Human Barbarian (Warrior + Hunter)
3: Attack an additional time this turn before you are exhausted. (EDIT)
"Graahhhh!!!"

Lady Sarthena
Human Bishop (Priest + Mage)
3: Friendly allies cannot be targeted by spells and abilities until the start of your next turn.
"No spell will break my sigil, or my will."

I know new heroes won't be coming any time soon, but that shouldn't keep us from throwing around ideas.

The idea here is to open the game to new deck options without increasing the number of cards or adding new classes or factions. Having more cards to choose from gives these heroes an advantage over the current heroes, but not by much - after all, you still need to find the right combination between, say, a Mage card and a Priest card to gain a synergy advantage.

This can be balanced by making their shadow energy abilities a little less good, or more expensive. The goal is to make these heroes good enough that you want to play them for the new options they offer, but not so good that nobody plays the current ones anymore.

I like the idea, however this heroes would have access to the best cards of two classes wich is very powerful! Ex: blood frenzy + mage burn.

Loving the idea of Red Mist!! However, i do agree with tomasruiz, but then again a great combo can be over come by another great combo =P Also i would like to add that eric thundersson is incredibly overpowered, i could have rapid fire + SE = 4 attacks per turn with soul seeker (8 damage +heal).

Or i could even have rapid fire+ability+beserkers edge, which is ultimately insta-death for opponent

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Originally Posted by tomasruiz

I like the idea, however this heroes would have access to the best cards of two classes which is very powerful! Ex: blood frenzy + mage burn.

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That's the idea - reward players who are willing to check for these kind of synergy tricks. Blood Frenzy is good, but it's not the only card that allows drawing cards. There are other ways to get there.

I like your example, because it shows how each of these heroes will have their unique synergy combo that sets their decks apart from other heroes.

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Originally Posted by Demonz1

Also i would like to add that eric thundersson is incredibly overpowered, i could have rapid fire + SE = 4 attacks per turn with soul seeker (8 damage +heal).

Or i could even have rapid fire+ability+beserkers edge, which is ultimately insta-death for opponent

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Good point. These "two attacks per turn" would have to be reworded to "one extra attack before being exhausted. So if you get the ability twice, you do a total of three attacks, not four. That's good, but most weapons deal one or two damage, not much compared to what allies can deal.

As for Berserker's Edge, yes, it could become scary, but that weapon has a 4 durability, so it does 1+2+3+4=10 damage before being sent to the graveyard. You need to have another card out to repair durability, at which point this becomes a trick that is hard to pull off. There are quite a few ways to counter it. It's good, but not dominating.

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Originally Posted by Bagyorath IV

That's the idea - reward players who are willing to check for these kind of synergy tricks.

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Yes, but on the flip side all the single-class heroes will be permanently gimped by comparison.

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Originally Posted by Bagyorath IV

Good point. These "two attacks per turn" would have to be reworded to "one extra attack before being exhausted. So if you get the ability twice, you do a total of three attacks, not four. That's good, but most weapons deal one or two damage, not much compared to what allies can deal.

As for Berserker's Edge, yes, it could become scary, but that weapon has a 4 durability, so it does 1+2+3+4=10 damage before being sent to the graveyard. You need to have another card out to repair durability, at which point this becomes a trick that is hard to pull off. There are quite a few ways to counter it. It's good, but not dominating.

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Rampage + Soul Seeker + ability + Rapid Fire + Enrage = GG

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Originally Posted by Airact

Rampage + Soul Seeker + ability + Rapid Fire + Enrage = GG

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Rampage 4cc + Soul Seeker 5cc + Rapid Fire 5cc + Enrage 4cc

Even if you start in round 4, this combo won't be on the table until round 7 and cost 18 of your 28 ressources. And if you put 4 of each in your deck to make sure you get the draws, that's 16 cards out of a 40 deck. And even then, you try to kill allies with a bow that deals only two damage. If you face an opponent without allies, like a Nishaven burn deck, it's completely useless. Then, after 4 attacks, your bow is gone.

If it works, great, you heal 10, or even 15 damage per round. That would be unkillable, but only if your opponent keeps playing two or three 1 or 2 hp allies each turn, instead of dispelling your bow.

Sounds good in theory, but won't survive a turnament. Compare what you could do with two 4cc and two 5cc allies out, at the same cost.

Love your examples, but you would never play single class again! So, it would never work.

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Originally Posted by Mongoosey

Love your examples, but you would never play single class again! So, it would never work.

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Really? Even if dual-class heroes are rare? Not everyone buys enough boosters to get every card. If one is 800 gold, you'll think twice whether you get this hero, or whether you'd rather buy two more portals.

And even if you get one of these heroes, you'd still have to build a deck that makes use of their extended card choice. It's not as easy as it looks. Just adding all the good cards from your favorite Mage deck and your favorite Rogue deck doesn't guarantee a win.

Single-class heroes would still be competitive, if they have good abilities. Majiya is not going away. Baduruu... well, who will miss him?

How do you make the heroes rare? Majiya would go away if faced with an amber/ majiya hero. Baduruu...might be epic when next 150 cards are released. I have a feeling hunters will come good. New traps...yes please

Majiya is great because her ability includes a card draw. If no other hero gets such an ability, she'll always have a place. Besides, she's a hot dark elf.

I think you're right on Hunters, though. More traps!!

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Originally Posted by Mongoosey

How do you make the heroes rare?

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Like any other card. You don't get them in prebuilt deck packages, only in boosters. Boosters have a certain chance of containing a rare hero instead of a common one. This chance shouldn't be too low, otherwise it's too frustrating. Maybe 30%? And they'd have a higher gold cost to buy directly, something like 800 gold.

Or, what about this? Don't put them in boosters at all, and make them unlockable: 30 wins in a quick duel or so.

More heroes...

Xaosion
Shadow Elemental + Rogue
4: Shuffle both graveyards. You draw two random cards from yours, your opponent draws one random card from his.
"He lurks behind reality, undoing what can't be undone."

Sliteye
Shadow Warrior + Mage
2: The next ally you attack with target weapon is poisoned.

Ecthelion
Human Warrior + Mage
3: If the target ally takes damage before the start of your next turn, that damage is reflected to its attacker.

Way too powerful. You are getting access to a large amount of cards to be used in ways they were meant to be used. These card combo will all but remove single class heroes from competitive play and your idea to make them expensive would only create more of a divide between people who pay for their cards and people who play for free/on a budget.

The only way I could see these working is to take away the heroes abilities(if you think about it dual class is an ability all on it's own) and most likely given then a negative like their weapons do less damage or something.

I doubt dual class heroes will ever be implemented as they would be near impossible to balance. They had a hard enough time getting the current card pool balanced for single class heroes.

I can totally see dual class heroes, with the restriction that you can only use 1 class at a time :)

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Originally Posted by reptile7383

Way too powerful. You are getting access to a large amount of cards to be used in ways they were meant to be used. These card combo will all but remove single class heroes from competitive play

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Switching to a dual-class hero does give you an automatic advantage. Each card you add to a deck a) forces you to throw one out or b) dilutes it and reduces the chance to draw your best cards when you need them. That said, current heroes have about 40 cards to choose from, dual-class 50.

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Originally Posted by reptile7383

and your idea to make them expensive would only create more of a divide between people who play for their cards and people who play for free/on a budget.

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Wulven is in the business to sell you cards.

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Originally Posted by Bagyorath IV

More heroes...

Xaosion
Shadow Elemental + Rogue
4: Shuffle both graveyards. You draw two random cards from yours, your opponent draws one random card from his.
"He lurks behind reality, undoing what can't be undone."

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Stop, Thief. Mind Control. Anklebreaker. Assassination. Shadow Font for insane card draw...


Just... no.

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Originally Posted by Bagyorath IV

Wulven is in the business to sell you cards.

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That's true but there current model is a f2p game with the ability to pay for more SC. Making a fun game for the free players will convince many people to try it out and then once they are addicted then they'll buy some SC or at least tell a friend. Making the game more expensive to just to have fun in MP is not a good way to keep people that don't have much money interested.

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Originally Posted by reptile7383

That's true but there current model is a f2p game with the ability to pay for more SC. Making a fun game for the free players will convince many people to try it out and then once they are addicted then they'll buy some SC or at least tell a friend. Making the game more expensive to just to have fun in MP is not a good way to keep people that don't have much money interested.

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Currently, you have to win 5 games at level 1 to buy one common card. To get a free booster, you have to advance four levels. I don't see anyone build a competitive deck without paying any money at all, unless you are still in high school and can play hours and hours. On the other hand, if you're willing to put just 10, 15 bucks in, you can get most of the cards you want.

I don't see any difference with rare heroes in the game. The ones you get in the prebuilt decks will be fine, and competitive (unlike what some people claim here). You can just get them later if you want.

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Originally Posted by Airact

Stop, Thief. Mind Control. Anklebreaker. Assassination. Shadow Font for insane card draw...

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Any Rogue already has access to Stop, Thief, Anklebreaker and Assassination. What does Mind Control add? It's very similar to Assassination.

Assassination: (-) requires ally out, uses that ally's turn, (+) cheap
Mind Control: (+) deal damage to hero, (-) expensive, (+) harder to block

The question really is how much a deck with 4 Assassinations would be improved by adding Mind Controls. I get that the card is popular, but I think it's slightly overrated.

As for the card draw, Mayija gets one every 3 turns.
4: Shuffle both graveyards. You draw two random cards from yours, your opponent draws one random card from his. Takes 4 turns, and it also gives the opponent an extra card, so you only get one card advantage over him.

Playing Shadow font to draw cards with the ability... Playing Shadow Font in the first place uses up one of your drawn cards. Why not just use a Santa instead.

I have to agree that there needs to be either a negative ability (or just no ability) or they need to have access to only ONE card pool at a time.

Think about your shadow bishop (mage/priest)--cobraskin wraps, HBM, and plague to stop your opponent from playing anything, spells to kill anything they get out, his ability to return either resource destruction or spells, Shadow Font to rinse and repeat. Hell, you would only need to use one weenie ally to win with all of this available. (Okay, probably a slight exaggeration, but you get the idea.) This isn't the only example; they would be too hard to balance with access to both sets of cards.

What I would hate to see with this would be them somehow managing to balance this set out with duel-class heroes, and then become trapped with the cards they make and not have the ability to make certain ones due to it being unbalanced for the duel class hero. For instance say they made a warrior mage, somehow they managed to balance them in the current set(s), but then they want to make a new mage card, but they realize that it would become over-powered for the duel-class hero, so they scrap it. It would be no doubt awesome, but just nearly impossible to balance and a lot more work than the already difficult task of balancing, it would make expansions exceedingly difficult to make as well.

good idea, dual class heroes. heres one..

Milfstalker
Shadow wulven + elemental
3: Milfstalker gets stealth until the beginning of your next turn. Discard the top card of target opponent's deck.
"Look to the Queen of Stalkers for the best milling sensation.."

combo with wulven and elemental stalling abilities and delay tactics with a some sick items like armour of ages.. ultimately annoy ur enemies. heheh!