Cards usefulness aka BUFF STUFF thread.

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Originally Posted by Unruler

How does inferior cards help you learn the game? Why give Extra Sharp to the new player, so he could learn by mistake that any ally buffs aren't good in current meta? Won't it cause NPE for him, and new player might as well leave and don't give any benefit to company.

That being said I want to explain now why didn't I played mentioned above cards. If I don't see direct benefit from using the card, I won't buy it because of sheer curiosity, and this is how majority of the players will behave. If the card's description is misleading (let's admit that MD, CD and Olgoth's descriptions are pretty confusing and mentioned to me benefits from using these cards are far from obvious) I can hardly understand what the card does, I can't implement it to my play easily. With PB it's simple: do the math and figure out that this ally can deal most damage per turn without any buffs. So if I can't see usefulness of the cards I won't buy them, won't spent my gold on them or shadow crystals and so on. Therein lies the problem and that's why I think that DT should try their best to make cards more attractive without ruining the balance. It is extremely tricky, but well worth it.

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Don't take this the wrong way, because it probably will come off the wrong way. But you aren't the only person playing the game. It doesn't have to tailor to just you. If you read your last paragraph, most of what you said is based on how you deal with things. Just because you don't understand a card to its full potential just by reading it's description, doesn't mean another player will not. Just because you feel like these cards are over complex doesn't mean everyone feels that way.

This also leads back to the learning curve I mentioned. Some players learn better by playing the cards and learning that they aren't good. Some (like yourself) try to discern the usefulness of a card right away to avoid getting bad ones. Everyone is different. Let those "bad" cards exist for the people that can learn from them. Having both ways helps out a multitude of people.


edit: oh yeah, btw. You guys are using that term wrong. The correct term is "newb" or "newbie" not "noob" which is an insult to an annoying player, or some variant of that.

At first I didn't think much about Molten Destroyer and didn't see how it could be a better 5cc drop than PB. However, after playing on the Test Server and seeing it in action I saw how effective this new ally can be. Sure PB can dish out more damage in a turn but MD can actually help clear the board even if dies. I don't think I've played against a Shadow Hero yet on the Test Server that doesn't include MD in their deck. I've found that having to deal with it is actually more troublesome than getting rid of a PB. It's definitely not a niche ally card and I can guarantee you that you will see this being played consistently when the new version goes live. I might even go so far as to say I think there will be several threads that might popup saying MD is OP when it goes live. :)

As for your comment about how new players won't buy cards that they do not understand, I partly agree. However, when new players end up getting their asses kicked because of this ally or that weapon, then they'll get the general idea about the capabilities of that card and will eventually learn to use those previously confusing cards.

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Originally Posted by Demnchi

Some players learn better by playing the cards and learning that they aren't good. Some (like yourself) try to discern the usefulness of a card right away to avoid getting bad ones.

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Considering limited amount of gold that player has, last is more likely to happen imo.

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Originally Posted by danae

At first I didn't think much about Molten Destroyer and didn't see how it could be a better 5cc drop than PB. However, after playing on the Test Server and seeing it in action I saw how effective this new ally can be. Sure PB can dish out more damage in a turn but MD can actually help clear the board even if dies. I don't think I've played against a Shadow Hero yet on the Test Server that doesn't include MD in their deck. I've found that having to deal with it is actually more troublesome than getting rid of a PB. It's definitely not a niche ally card and I can guarantee you that you will see this being played consistently when the new version goes live. I might even go so far as to say I think there will be several threads that might popup saying MD is OP when it goes live. :)

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Time will show how meta goes, I just expressed my initial thoughts on some allies.

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Originally Posted by Unruler

Considering limited amount of gold that player has, last is more likely to happen imo.



Time will show how meta goes, I just expressed my initial thoughts on some allies.

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Players will try to figure out if the card is useful or not. What I'm saying its some are willing to learn from playing the card and others aren't. Gold is more or less valuable depending on the player. You can always earn more gold.

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Originally Posted by Unruler

You clearly misunderstood my point. I resorted to analogy with Extra Sharp and Elementalis to explain my point that opinions on the cards do differ, and you can happily play any card, however that doesn't mean that these cards are equal in terms of power, usefulness and versatility to some other cards.



I provided my considerations of why exactly do I think that presented cards are inferior to some others and tried to prove them. I don't see why do you taking my opinion so offensively and view it as highly biased and irrelevant. Yes, I didn't played much with those cards, yes, I didn't won any tournament, yes, I'm pretty decent player not involved in the competitive scene, but does that mean that my opinion does not deserve to be treated correspondingly as objective? If you do not agree with it please provide some explanation why is that exactly since I've done so. It very well might be that I don't understand something, then you need to explain it to me rather than saying: "Oh, I'm a tournament champion, if you didn't played this cards I won't even talk to you". Ok, that's doesn't sound like a most polite thing ever, you are not forced to reply to this thread if you have nothing else to say rather than nitpicking personally to OP.

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Your argument was that only new players would play Extra Sharp and Elementalis to respond to a comment about the viability of POTL/MD. Unless you are implying the POTL/MD players are 'new players' (which in the context seems to be how everyone else has interpreted it), then it seems like an irrelevant reply. PotL/MD are no where as weak as extra sharp so using the blanket argument that weak cards should not be used (which I agree btw) is incorrect.

I'm just pointing out the fundamental flaw in your arguments. The only reason why I have not provided arguments for the cards is that they have been repeated at least 3-4 times already in this thread and you have dismissed them so casually. The fact is that unless you have some other credential that would qualify your completely theory crafted complaints (like if you were a TCG developer/DT/tourny champ), it is difficult for anybody to take your views seriously when you have not even played with the cards. With you constantly denying that this is an issue, I believe it is a relevant point to bring out.

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Originally Posted by Unruler

Time will show how meta goes, I just expressed my initial thoughts on some allies.

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I hope this is what you truly think now.

Guys, if you want to address me personally, please use the PM. If you want to state your opinion on the cards please make sure it's properly grounded. Thank you very much for your understanding!

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Originally Posted by thendless

It should go without saying but if you played any older TCGs you've most likely learned that a currently useless card can easily be a crucial part of a future t1 deck. I still remember from my MtG times when High Tide became a perfect example of this.

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I wonder how Tracking Gear can turn into a better card in the future. Any thought?

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Originally Posted by dinglee

I wonder how Tracking Gear can turn into a better card in the future. Any thought?

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Tracking is a useful card. The problem is that as far as hunters go there are better turn three drops so it's hard to auto-include it. Still, even though I haven't played with Gwen for a while I used it on my last Gwen deck to use Night Prowler more efficiently with nice results.

As for getting better, I figure that if we are ever introduced to a mechanic that makes you interact with you opponents hand we'll see it a lot more.