(In Progress) Guild War Z: An AA1 Tournament (Challenges Thread)

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Originally Posted by Rayzie

I strongly disapprove of that call. People from every guild have been unable to make saves due to having members tied up by people claiming saves, most of which never eventuated. How is that within the rules? The only way using a save option should be 'invalid' is if its made illegally, if someone has already challenged or is outside 24hrs. In all other cases it should just be unsuccessful.

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Rayzie, saying you disapprove of that call indicates you believe that the TO has made a judgement call, rather than strictly following the rules. I would like to contend that what he has done is strictly apply the rules, and as such any pressure on him to change his mind is invalid, as it is an attempt to change the rules, not influence a judgement call. I'm sorry for getting technical and pedantic, but that's what rules come down to:

Rule 14b: The player who will do the saving must post the challenge declaring that it is a save and do so within 24 hours or the save option will be invalid.

Notice the technical term (in this context) invalid

Scenario 3 - Invalid Save:

1. Guild A member 1 loses to Guild B member 1.
2. Guild B member 1 challenges or is challenged by another player.
3. Guild A member 2 challenges Guild B member 1 to try to attempt a Save.
4. Save is invalid.
5. No Save option has been used for Guild A.

Again, we encounter the technical term (in this context) "invalid". We see from the use of the term " invalid"in scenarios for save option, scenario 3, that in the context of this tournament, the phrase "invalid" means that no save option has been used by the team. Therefore we can apply the same meaning of the term "invalid" to rule 14b, and as such you can declare a save, and if no one is able to undertake that save within 24 hours (or you chose to not have someone undertake the save), the save is "invalid", and therefore has not been used.

As such the TO has correctly interpreted the rules in his statement, not issued a judgement call.

So accepting your decision, I guess one more ruling is required then. Bayushi nominated himself to save Mongoosey after he defeated Kalela, since he was no longer involved in a challenge. Remember that it's not illegal to be involved in a match prior to the hour passing, only illegal to issue a new challenge. This happened before Kalela called the save attempt which would have re-involved Bayushi in the match, and would make Kalela's save attempt invalid since Bayushi was already involved in a different match.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rayzie

So accepting your decision, I guess one more ruling is required then. Bayushi nominated himself to save Mongoosey after he defeated Kalela, since he was no longer involved in a challenge. Remember that it's not illegal to be involved in a match prior to the hour passing, only illegal to issue a new challenge. This happened before Kalela called the save attempt which would have re-involved Bayushi in the match, and would make Kalela's save attempt invalid since Bayushi was already involved in a different match.

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My brain, my poor brain....

Here's the timeline (using my forum clock)
27th 11:38pm emi beats Mongoosey
27th 11:44pm Mongoosey declares save
28th 12:43 pm Bayushi beats Kelala, Kelala declares save, locking Bayushi
28th 12:45pm Bayushi declares he will save Mongoosey - invalid, he is save locked by Kela, and 1 hour has not passed
28th 11:39pm emigor declares he will save Kelala - TO rules this save declaration invalid as the post is edited

28th 11:44pm - Mongooseys 24 hours to be saved has finished, the save is invalid, Emi is freed up to challenge


29th 4:11am Bayushi re-iterates he is Saving Mongoosey - Bayushi is still locked - invalid save - 24 hours has more than passed since Mongoosey declared save - save invalid
29th 5:19am emigor again declares save for Kelala, within 24 hours of save declaration - legal declaration of save


Bayushi's declaration of a save for Mongoosey is invalid according to rule 9a, and according to rule 2
9a. The winner of the match can only challenge someone else after one hour of the posting of the results but anyone can challenge the winner immediately after

2. You can only challenge someone if you have not already been challenged and do not have a pending or unreported match.

Bayushi was save locked by Kelala, and his save declaration was within an hour, so on two counts it is an invalid save.

Emigors original declaration of a save was declared invalid as it was edited. However, he re-issued the save, within 24 hours, while Bayushi was still locked in the save declaration, and therefore not able to save Mongoosey

Result: Mongoosey is dead. Bayushi is in a save with emigor, to save Kelala.

Rule 9a? Does it cover answering a team member's save declaration? I simply answered the save declaration issued by Mongoosey.

Mongoosey called save before my match with Kelala ended so that means Mojojojo is still locked in a save declaration, isn't he?

Yeah, that's right. Sorry, I thought bayushi had posted the first result, not kalela.

Mongoosey did call save, but if you check my timeline that save had expired (24 hours), but Kelala's hadn't, when emigor issued his second challenge to you to save Kelala.

According to my clock, it was only 13 hours - post was 5:44am and I answered the save by 6:45pm same day.

Attachment 4651Attachment 4652

Bayushi, you were save locked by Kelala declaring save, and so unable to save Mongoosey...

Go back and check the sequence of events... Kelala declared bp would be saving BEFORE you said you would save Mongoosey, so you were locked, and unable to save Mongoosey

Why were there no locks that took effect when Mongoosey called for save, which was before Kelala did?

I thought we had 24 hours to come up with the challenge so Emigor cannot be saving for Kelala since he will be answering the save for Mongoosey first, right?