Shattered Fates Poor Art Quality

Ultimately the issue is a budget concern. If Wulven can't hire MORE artists so they can get anything done on time, you think they can afford to hire professional studios to do pieces? Yeah, not all the art will be consistent and not all of it will be the same resolution or same level of skill. Not all art is to everyone's tastes. In fact, there's a large subset of Magic players who prefer the old days where the game had very little art direction where most pieces were low in quality and detail just because there was more variety that way.

Regardless, at the end of the day, it's not as important as you think. If you play the game by staring at your opening hand until the timer runs out, you're doing it wrong. If the company didn't focus on the game itself, you wouldn't be playing it at all in the first place. Wulven is not that big of a company and has to prioritize. Can't do everything.

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Originally Posted by Lightning Fury

I just want SE to use art that fits the theme of the DP and CotC sets, not differentiate in SF.

That said, the faster we get the art, the better. It should also be secondary to the features that should be developed for the game. Auction house, in game tournaments, campaign, everything has been on the backburner/works for too long. That's what's killing the game for players that have been around for a long time now.

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agree make campaign , ingame tournament before next expansion why u want to just selll card make digital people happy too new card new bug then all the creator will be busy in fixing bug stop all thing and please work on
AUCTION HOUSE
IN-GAME TOURNAMENT
CAMPAIGN

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Originally Posted by plo

It is just my oppinion, but I don`t think Frying Pan and Exaltation are so bad as you are claiming. I don`t think they fall too far behind if you compare with the other art. Some are complaining about FP and Exaltation, but it has to be seen if there is concensus on this. It has to be seen if there are not many like me who thinkk they are reasonable.

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Me personally, I don't want cards that "don't look SO bad", I want cards that look really good, awesome and sick---that's how good of a game shadow era is, it deserves top notch art, all the time. "Not so bad is borderline bad".

I like SE cards. Some of them have great art and lesser ones still don't look too awkward on the board. But I ageee with OP on certain points. It seems to me as more of a style problem than quality. I think people (me included) want card arts to have more consistency. Current SF style looks like a step backwards from Crystals.

The argument of SE not having enough budget doesn't hold ground though. How can they ever have enough budget if they don't give willing customers enough reasons to pay for. For example (since it's also art related) there are good number of sleeves and few mats. Here I am willing to buy more mats but my options are exhausted after few purchases. Not being able to get more mats in the style I want also means I stop buying new sleeves because not every sleeve goes with every mat. There are hundreds of artwork in the game, transforming more of them into mats and sleeves should be possible. Specially since the money will be earned from sales will directly affect SE's art budget.

TLDR, Having an ameteur sprit is good while creating a community, but offering more products for sale with consistent style / higher quality in a professional manner would help the company grow further more easily.

Just have all the placeholders replaced with images :)

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Originally Posted by WrathOfCroft

But the Pithing Spear has a spear in it. Thats not really what comes to my mind when I hear the word Blade.

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Well, A spear has a blade on it, right?? Either way, I do think that Viska should get the spear's art. But the spear shouldn't get Viska's art. I say put that art in the vault and use it later on, or not at all.

[edit:] Actually, now that I think about it. The spear should keep its art, because I think the focus of it is on the spear itself, rather than its wielder. Viska should be the one that gets new art.. (Perhaps drawn by the same artist that did the spear??). She is too epic of a card to not have epic art.

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Originally Posted by MistahBoweh

Ultimately the issue is a budget concern. If Wulven can't hire MORE artists so they can get anything done on time, you think they can afford to hire professional studios to do pieces? Yeah, not all the art will be consistent and not all of it will be the same resolution or same level of skill. Not all art is to everyone's tastes. In fact, there's a large subset of Magic players who prefer the old days where the game had very little art direction where most pieces were low in quality and detail just because there was more variety that way.

Regardless, at the end of the day, it's not as important as you think. If you play the game by staring at your opening hand until the timer runs out, you're doing it wrong. If the company didn't focus on the game itself, you wouldn't be playing it at all in the first place. Wulven is not that big of a company and has to prioritize. Can't do everything.

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I think art is very important. Magic had one thing to its advantage: it was in its own realm at the time. Nothing else to compare it to. The game itself was so interesting (because it was new and enjoyable) that it made the art irrelevant. However, Shadow Era has competitors (and by that I mean full scale digital CCGs); and over the years, the bar has been raised for these types of games in general. The art is a big part of what reels people in now. Note: Kyle must be aware of this, because having "gorgeous, original art" was a big marketing point for SE in the beginning. It most likely is still mentioned in its description on various app stores and gaming blogs.

But you do have a point that I agree with. If SE's art was to suddenly take a huge plunge in quality, its likely that Wulven would only lose a few customers from it, (since we already like playing it for other reasons besides the art). However, it very well could prevent Wulven from gaining a significant amount of customers, which is bad for everyone because less customers = less profits = less features.

Nicely said Kross

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Originally Posted by Kross

But you do have a point that I agree with. If SE's art was to suddenly take a huge plunge in quality, its likely that Wulven would only lose a few customers from it, (since we already like playing it for other reasons besides the art). However, it very well could prevent Wulven from gaining a significant amount of customers, which is bad for everyone because less customers = less profits = less features.

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The main thing stopping Wulven from GAINING customers is lack of marketing, which takes money as well. So should money be spent on art or marketing?

The answer is both and that's where it is being spent. :)

Personally, I am very disappointed there is still missing art almost a year after this went to closed beta, but we have quite a lot in progress at the moment, aiming for all art to be on by Christmas.

I like Viska's art
but seriously, change Sindarok :mad:

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Originally Posted by Gondorian

The main thing stopping Wulven from GAINING customers is lack of marketing, which takes money as well. So should money be spent on art or marketing?

The answer is both and that's where it is being spent. :)

Personally, I am very disappointed there is still missing art almost a year after this went to closed beta, but we have quite a lot in progress at the moment, aiming for all art to be on by Christmas.

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I can agree with that, but I think using social media, the art can market the game for you, sort of.

Facebook post: "Share one of these post of your favorite art! If your favorite art gets, the most shares, you win 100 shadow crystals!!! (equivalent to a booster pack!!) You may share multiple posts of different images, but only one entry per photo!"

**Player shares, friend sees**

Friend: "Hey that looks cool! Where is that from??"
Player: "A card game I play called Shadow Era. They have a great community and its free to play and easy to learn. [Link]"

A little exaggerated, but you get the idea. That would only cost Wulven $1 per share, basically. And you're getting more shares than you're paying for. (Not sure if that technically is expensive or not though. I'm not into marketing)

Not saying that all of the money should be spent on art and not marketing though. Both are important, as you said.

bottom line is that some of the art SUCKS so bad it will embarrass your mom!!
1. Viska- transvestite Meryl streep
2.Frying Pan- retarded Conan/Apache/Cro-magnon wielding a modern frying pan
3. Blood Fang- a werewolf in jeans + new art for the wulven allies wearing armor??
4.Sindarok Apprentice- a crossbreed witch and scarecrow in the priest ally pool... it looks like a witch!! its the same reason why Oliver Fagin's art was changed!!
5.Nathanias- Looks OK.. but people's champ? hell no!!

@Kross: That image could have more to it. Might if been cropped. All they have to do is move where it was cropped or zoom in at a different t spot.

No offense to prey bird. but wulven could have hired a professional to do the artworks.

+1 to changing sindarok

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Originally Posted by Error 505

5.Nathanias- Looks OK.. but people's champ? hell no!!

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What!? Nathanias is one of the best arts in the game! Something's are not a matter of opinion. You don't need an art degree to recognize experienced professional work.

But you know, I don't get it. How much does it cost to have someone do 1 drawing for a card? I mean it can't be that much. There has to be freelance artists all over. Go to an art college and pick one of their seniors, somebody who's getting a degree in illustration or something. I don't mind diffent styles of art, I just want quality professional work. If I'm not mistaken, concept art is done with a sort of sketchy teqnique, it looks gritty but it looks beautiful. Hire a concept artist to do some pieces. Good thing about those who have degrees or getting one is that they are taught anatomy etc to make the characters look realistic, even if it's a cartoon. You won't see one arm longer than another etc.

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Originally Posted by Capo 9

What!? Nathanias is one of the best arts in the game! Something's are not a matter of opinion. You don't need an art degree to recognize experienced professional work.

But you know, I don't get it. How much does it cost to have someone do 1 drawing for a card? I mean it can't be that much. There has to be freelance artists all over. Go to an art college and pick one of their seniors, somebody who's getting a degree in illustration or something. I don't mind diffent styles of art, I just want quality professional work. If I'm not mistaken, concept art is done with a sort of sketchy teqnique, it looks gritty but it looks beautiful. Hire a concept artist to do some pieces. Good thing about those who have degrees or getting one is that they are taught anatomy etc to make the characters look realistic, even if it's a cartoon. You won't see one arm longer than another etc.

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what he's saying is that the flavor does not suit him..

I'm just wondering why @Karniv04 's art isn't in the game I mean http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...6301f309f4.jpg(tm)
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...28e6b6e96d.jpg (tm)
LOOK AT THAT. LOOK AT IT. WHY IS THIS NOT IN THE GAME.

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Originally Posted by LucasBlitz

I'm just wondering why @Karniv04 's art isn't in the game I mean http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...6301f309f4.jpg(tm)

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love scriptures

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Originally Posted by LucasBlitz

I'm just wondering why @Karniv04 's art isn't in the game I mean http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...6301f309f4.jpg(tm)
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...28e6b6e96d.jpg (tm)
LOOK AT THAT. LOOK AT IT. WHY IS THIS NOT IN THE GAME.

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The image resolution is rather poor :|

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Originally Posted by G.P.

The image resolution is rather poor :|

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I think that's just when he put the image in the card frame, the resolution got messed up a bit. But style-wise he's made some very nice pieces.

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Originally Posted by User Name

No offense to prey bird. but wulven could have hired a professional to do the artworks.

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I can only agree in resignation. I don't remember in how many threads I complained about the art and that is the reason why I had to take a long hiatus from SE.
But I have to say that I am glad that the art seems to have received quite a few updates in my absence and that most of it seems to have been done by professional artists (even though it might be terrible unfitting like Sindarok). I have become somewhat hopeful again. I just hope the art for the elemental cards will be replaced in the end (GDC did mention that PB artworks are only placeholders iirc) than I will be very happy indeed.

But I think we should maybe keep the artwork for Cutlass, since PB did put so much work into SF that he deserves a permanent card and I think Cutlass is by far his best work (and the card was community designed wasn't it?).

You know guys that without PreyBird, 20% of the SF cards would be without artwork right? He did so many pieces, trying to keep consistency for the elemental cardpool, that other players complaining about now we lost consistency. Also he created the art when we didn't have any new piece for around a month iirc, thus giving a great boost for completing the set. And now you suggesting to remove his art? How would you feel when someone asks you to do some quite challenging work and then says Hey you know we will not use it, thanks for spending your time though!
I will agree that some of his work look much more incredible than the other, but overall I like all his pieces. Imo wulven DP cards are the "ugliest" work so far, but I don't remember anyone complaining about it at that time.

I am no professiional artists but art that bugs me specifically:

Tala Purehearth: Anatomically incorrect and weird posture.
Bloodfang: Putting jeans aside, he looks like speed art. Solid speed art, but still looks like something thrown together fast
Plightbred Runt: Gross, obvious Golem from LotR
Some of the stuff from Vuk Kostic is really good but following ones look like another speed art, way too blurry: Grimghast, Cinderborn Familiar, Embers of the Just (I have no clue what is going on this one)
Corpse Shifter: Another out of focus, what the hell is this all about piece
Sindarok Apprentice: Art in it self isn't bad, but it is so out of place here it hurts my eyes.

Reagarding PBs art I think Oliver Fagin, Guardian of Unaxio, Cutlass, Reactorary are some of best new art in SF. Rest aren't up to that quality but given time restrain he is under that is reasonable. I do not think they are worse than average card quality in SE. Only art I am really bothered of his is the one for Stardust Extractor. I know its one of his earliest works but to me it looks too simplistic when you compare it to rest of new Elemental art which is so rich in color.

I think this thread starts losing perspective when it becomes personal. Wulven is a professional company. No matter what the compensation deal is, anybody who is done a work for the company requires to be considered professional as well. When we start talking about artist feelings, we are not discussing the art work of a card game anymore.

I think leaving the artist names out of it and just sharing our ideas about the SF expansion's game art itself would be more productive. SF is still in beta right? Wulven can review the community feedback and if sees a need could make changes.

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Originally Posted by Holy Punisher

You know guys that without PreyBird, 20% of the SF cards would be without artwork right? He did so many pieces, trying to keep consistency for the elemental cardpool, that other players complaining about now we lost consistency. Also he created the art when we didn't have any new piece for around a month iirc, thus giving a great boost for completing the set. And now you suggesting to remove his art? How would you feel when someone asks you to do some quite challenging work and then says Hey you know we will not use it, thanks for spending your time though!
I will agree that some of his work look much more incredible than the other, but overall I like all his pieces. Imo wulven DP cards are the "ugliest" work so far, but I don't remember anyone complaining about it at that time.

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Originally Posted by PriestAmar

I think this thread starts losing perspective when it becomes personal. Wulven is a professional company. No matter what the compensation deal is, anybody who is done a work for the company requires to be considered professional as well. When we start talking about artist feelings, we are not discussing the art work of a card game anymore.

I think leaving the artist names out of it and just sharing our ideas about the SF expansion's game art itself would be more productive. SF is still in beta right? Wulven can review the community feedback and if sees a need could make changes.

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I can only agree.
I thought it was intended to replace the artworks at some point, but maybe I misremember, as I said I haven't been on the forums for half a year.

And since I don't want to cause any derail, I'll simply leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by Holy Punisher

You know guys that without PreyBird, 20% of the SF cards would be without artwork right? He did so many pieces, trying to keep consistency for the elemental cardpool, that other players complaining about now we lost consistency. Also he created the art when we didn't have any new piece for around a month iirc, thus giving a great boost for completing the set. And now you suggesting to remove his art? How would you feel when someone asks you to do some quite challenging work and then says Hey you know we will not use it, thanks for spending your time though!
I will agree that some of his work look much more incredible than the other, but overall I like all his pieces. Imo wulven DP cards are the "ugliest" work so far, but I don't remember anyone complaining about it at that time.

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It just shows that WULVEN BIT OFF MORE THAN IT COULD CHEW... having more than a year to release a set with some substandard quality art? that's an awful way to keep their customers..with respect to PB he did a good job with some of his work, but if you're going to say that frying pan, and some of his mentioned artworks don't look like they were drawn by an amateur.. YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING!! Right??

hmm, maybe wulven should really be trying to just get art that everyone agrees is good. That shouldn't be too hard, right? All it takes is for every card, just have a poll where people can all weigh in, and if it gets 100%, then it's in. If not, start over. Easy! It should be easy to get people to all agree on art. They can also take into account criticism, like if someone says "hey this face is not gud." then they can just get someone to make it gudder. If someone says "this one needs to be more awesome." Then they can take out the old awesome brush. And if someone says "it's unprofessional", then they can get someone to draw it while wearing a suit!

[/sarcasm]

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Originally Posted by gnodab

I can only agree in resignation. I don't remember in how many threads I complained about the art and that is the reason why I had to take a long hiatus from SE.
But I have to say that I am glad that the art seems to have received quite a few updates in my absence and that most of it seems to have been done by professional artists (even though it might be terrible unfitting like Sindarok). I have become somewhat hopeful again. I just hope the art for the elemental cards will be replaced in the end (GDC did mention that PB artworks are only placeholders iirc) than I will be very happy indeed.

But I think we should maybe keep the artwork for Cutlass, since PB did put so much work into SF that he deserves a permanent card and I think Cutlass is by far his best work (and the card was community designed wasn't it?).

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You recall incorrectly. What I have said repeatedly is that no art is locked down until printing, just as no wording is. We're printing in Spring 2015.

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Originally Posted by Gondorian

You recall incorrectly. What I have said repeatedly is that no art is locked down until printing, just as no wording is. We're printing in Spring 2015.

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So that is were I got it from. Thanks for the clarification GDC!
Btw will there be a twitch stream for the WC? All I found up till now, are some snippets on FDL's youtube channel, which were very interesting but at 360p :(
Some high res videos would be a nice way to give SE more exposure and would allow to show off the awesome art SE doeshave :)

Tbh.. I'm waiting for the relaunch of the old priest of the light art.

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Originally Posted by abysmal

tbh.. I'm waiting for the relaunch of the old priest of the light art.

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That should be the next priest hero! And make it strong too so people will be forced to stare at it!

For me art quality is a potential deal-breaker; if it drops below a certain level (one it is close to) I won't play a game no matter how interesting the strategy is or how much time or money I have invested. I left a different DCG for this reason immediately after an expansion, even though it had previously been my favorite game in any genre. An issue is that a poor art piece can diminish an otherwise beautiful board even if it is the only poor piece out of ten or fifteen. There is much excellent art in the game, which is why I continue to play it, but some is embarrassingly bad and I would request consistency. Every piece should indeed be amazing.

Unacceptable cards include:

Stop Thief!
Thoughtful Investment
Special Delivery
Frying Pan
Temporal Disturbance
Reverberate

and others.

By contrast, everything by Eve Ventrue is excellent. It would be wholly satisfactory if she illustrated every subsequent card.

Especially frustrating to me as a Rogue player is that Garth Ravensoul's art is so sub-par and incongruous with other Rogue card art. It would have been far better to use the art currently on Sword Thief for Garth. But if I could change only one card, it would be Stop Thief!, a Rogue staple that nonetheless clashes with every other Rogue card aesthetically.

Kyle, hire this guy pls: http://orion35.deviantart.com/

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Originally Posted by Frango

Kyle, hire this guy pls: http://orion35.deviantart.com/

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+1. He is great.

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Originally Posted by Aegis N

But if I could change only one card, it would be Stop Thief!, a Rogue staple that nonetheless clashes with every other Rogue card aesthetically.

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Usually, I agree with people when it comes to criticizing bad art of SE since the opinions in these cases are often universal. However, I do not agree with this criticism. Stop, Thief! is a fine piece of art with a high sense of detail and respect of color, light and contrast. In fact, this is the first time I am hearing anyone say it is bad.

I wonder how much Wulven is saving on using subpar art and whether or not it outweighs the indignant response from the community. Like, how much do they have to pay for an art piece from the above mentioned artist compared to eg. Frying Pan?

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Originally Posted by Ness

I wonder how much Wulven is saving on using subpar art

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An accounting of this would have to include the loss of revenue from prospective platers who pass over the game because of art pieces that are not competitive with other DCGs, and from former players who leave SE for reasons including subpar art. For instance, compare Stop, Thief! to:

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Addendum: I just noticed that Hearthstone is #6 on Time's 15 Best Games of 2014. Notably, the short review emphasized the game's "elaborate design values," calling it "slick" and "lavish." While I will never play HS precisely because its aesthetic does not appeal to me, I think the importance of style in a game cannot be overstated, and both Time and consumers in general seem to agree. The key is that a game's look be consistent. It can't have both cartoonish cards like Stop, Thief! and moody cards like Sword Thief--it needs to choose one of these artistic directions and stick with it. And I think it would do better to go the latter route to occupy a different niche than HS, with which SE cannot compete stylistically if it simply tries to imitate HS; at this point, the cartoonish niche is effectively already taken.

http://time.com/3643724/best-video-games-2014/

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Originally Posted by Aegis N

Addendum: I just noticed that Hearthstone is #6 on Time's 15 Best Games of 2014. Notably, the short review emphasized the game's "elaborate design values," calling it "slick" and "lavish." While I will never play HS precisely because its aesthetic does not appeal to me, I think the importance of style in a game cannot be overstated, and both Time and consumers in general seem to agree. The key is that a game's look be consistent. It can't have both cartoonish cards like Stop, Thief! and moody cards like Sword Thief--it needs to choose one of these artistic directions and stick with it. And I think it would do better to go the latter route to occupy a different niche than HS, with which SE cannot compete stylistically if it simply tries to imitate HS; at this point, the cartoonish niche is effectively already taken.

http://time.com/3643724/best-video-games-2014/

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The only issue with all moody art is that it drags the game a bit especially since SE is a pretty slow compared to HS cartoon-esque fast paced fun style they've carried over from WoW. The only thing about SE is that the art is inconsistent and that once a barely known digital game goes physical you would assume the art would be the same. SE kinda shoots itself in the foot when it comes to art since they're very quiet about it as the community asks for simple things like more sleeves, playmats some minor aesthetics but it never comes down to it.
Another game factor find weak would be the lore. Something to bind everything together through the artwork but this also lacks that, kind of a shame really.

I agree.

And to put my money where my mouth is, once SF is stable (bug-free and out of beta) and SE is on surer footing I'll happily pay a couple-hundred Shadow Crystals per digital copy for an alternate-art version of Stop, Thief! created by an artist like Eve Ventrue, who skillfully evokes the mystery and menace that makes Rogues my favorite class.

As a rogue and sometimes Serena player I hope skilled ironmonger's art is good. Don't want to wait this long for a great 2cc ally to get mediocre art that doesn't reflect being a skilled ironmonger or a rogue.