Multiplayer exploit fixes

Agree with Codepunk. I've read the ranking explanation posted somewhere around the forum and it made perfect sense.

I don't care much about ranking, but I would love to participate in tournaments, so here's another one hoping they will come some time in the future.

As for the exploit fixes, good on you Kyle, great to see this things are getting attention, even when there's so much going on at the moment. One thing though, these type of announcements should be posted on the, well, announcements forum, so it doesn't get buried amidst all the other threads. Also (and as much as I detest mass emails), you should send these updates in an email to every game account. A large chunk of players does not visit the forums and they should know about these changes. There is always the option to unsubscribe for those who don't want to receive them.

Great Job !

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Originally Posted by Mastasmiles

While he should be winning a high percentage, at the upper levels is pretty much impossible to be winning 90% of your games. He has a plus 1 win ratio but still lost 14 points, that seems a little harsh. Gaining 14 points back at such high ratings would take MANY hours of playing and like you said- a very, very high win ratio of around 19/20.

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To maintain around 440, I need to win 5-8 games for every loss, depending on the rankings of the players involved. 500 is supposed to be like a grandmaster in chess, I see no problem with needing to win at least 90% of your games to keep the rating.

Observing games in progress should be disabled until both players hands are hidden. People are still going to use another account to view their opponents hands (*Shakes fist* @ pathetic cheaters). This should not be something that is allowed to continue until the next release...

Thanks,
BL00DY

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Originally Posted by Hatts

To maintain around 440, I need to win 5-8 games for every loss, depending on the rankings of the players involved. 500 is supposed to be like a grandmaster in chess, I see no problem with needing to win at least 90% of your games to keep the rating.

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While i agree i believe a reset or rankings should be done. That way the true top players will get ahead of the people. but before this happens we need a more balanced rating system, Hate playing someone 100-150 points lower than me.

As for rank and how to keep it fresh. Maybe a solution would be an addition that "if a player won't play at least [put the number] games per day, his rank will be decreased by [put the number] points".

That will force an active playing on those who are in top of the ranking.

PS. I didn't read whole topic (busy atm), so sry if similar idea already happened.

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Originally Posted by BL00DY

Observing games in progress should be disabled until both players hands are hidden. People are still going to use another account to view their opponents hands (*Shakes fist* @ pathetic cheaters). This should not be something that is allowed to continue until the next release...

Thanks,
BL00DY

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Has already been done check Kyle's posts.

While I'm very happy with the news about countermeasures against the unscrupulous. I trust exploits will be thing a thing of the past in the near future. (I think that statement makes sense 0.o?)

All I can say is keep up the good work Kyle and friends, Shadow Era is pure awesome ^.^

I'm happy with the changes. I finally got to play some good higher ranked players today! I even got smushed by Boris.

I did suffer one mystery loss, though. It didn't come with the long hang time, thankfully.

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Originally Posted by Mastasmiles

While he should be winning a high percentage, at the upper levels is pretty much impossible to be winning 90% of your games. He has a plus 1 win ratio but still lost 14 points, that seems a little harsh. Gaining 14 points back at such high ratings would take MANY hours of playing and like you said- a very, very high win ratio of around 19/20.

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But right now, EVERYONE in the upper levels have artificially inflated rankings. They all should be coming down significantly.

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Originally Posted by Kyle

I had to rethink the latest exploit change, and you can again view games in progress as this is an important part of SE and fun to do. But you can't join your own game (sync error) and the next release will hide both hands when observing or replaying a game that's not yours.

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It is re-enabled, hiding hands not currently implemented. This should be disabled until the fix is released... People are currently still able to abuse this...


Yes, I thoroughly read all of his posts...

Now wipe the stats and stop pussyfooting around the issue! You've gone most of the way. Finish the race.

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Originally Posted by Calmdown

Now wipe the stats and stop pussyfooting around the issue! You've gone most of the way. Finish the race.

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+1
10 char...

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Originally Posted by Calmdown

Now wipe the stats and stop pussyfooting around the issue! You've gone most of the way. Finish the race.

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I agree with Kyle on this one. Not only does that punish the hard-working, honest players, removing all of their effort, but also now that people can't cheat we'll see everybody return to their rightful skill level anyhow. I don't see how a rating wipe is beneficial to everyone. Sounds like people just want another shot at being on top.

appreciate the fix Kyle and co.

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Originally Posted by Calmdown

Now wipe the stats and stop pussyfooting around the issue! You've gone most of the way. Finish the race.

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+2

Charlength = :-)

I'm very certain there will be no wipe so people can just drop requesting it.

First and foremost, there's over half a million accounts now and alot of players. Most of which, don't use exploits so a ratings wipe will punish the few and sully the record of many.

Second, Kyle has stated previously that there will be no more wipes so people will go up in arms about this as well.

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Originally Posted by Codepunk

I agree with Kyle on this one. Not only does that punish the hard-working, honest players, removing all of their effort, but also now that people can't cheat we'll see everybody return to their rightful skill level anyhow. I don't see how a rating wipe is beneficial to everyone. Sounds like people just want another shot at being on top.

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Existing ratings mean nothing because the system was completely, fundamentally broken. The counterpoint to your argument is that if everyone is given an equal footing to start on, everyone will get to their rightful skill level anyway.

The only people that no wipe benefits are the people that have a high rating due to exploits and will happily play no games to keep that rating. It happens in every ranking system that isnt actively monitored and hasn't implemented decay.

All known cheats not taken care of until next release......... Or disable observing ongoing games until then, as I said. They were disabled briefly, but that was then reversed. Poor decision, IMHO. :-(

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Originally Posted by Calmdown

Existing ratings mean nothing because the system was completely, fundamentally broken. The counterpoint to your argument is that if everyone is given an equal footing to start on, everyone will get to their rightful skill level anyway.

The only people that no wipe benefits are the people that have a high rating due to exploits and will happily play no games to keep that rating. It happens in every ranking system that isnt actively monitored and hasn't implemented decay.

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The difference is that if everyone starts at 0, it will only make it even MORE difficult for people to gain rating, a point that everybody already complains about. It will take forever before we gain any kind of rating spread, because there will be no high rating players to fight. So yes, both options have the same long-term end result, but not wiping will achieve that result MUCH faster.

And not ALL current ratings are broken, only those who actively used exploits, generally those of really high ranking who soon will no longer be in that position, and then ratings will once again be accurate. I see no benefit to wiping rating...it simply slows everything down to a near halt. If things are left how they are, the exploiter's ratings will rapidly decrease and then ratings WILL mean something, in a lot shorter time than starting from scratch.

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Originally Posted by Calmdown

Existing ratings mean nothing because the system was completely, fundamentally broken. The counterpoint to your argument is that if everyone is given an equal footing to start on, everyone will get to their rightful skill level anyway.

The only people that no wipe benefits are the people that have a high rating due to exploits and will happily play no games to keep that rating. It happens in every ranking system that isnt actively monitored and hasn't implemented decay.

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And those that have BARELY managed to climb the ranking ladder due to stupid 1.23 Eladwen and ppl exploiting different bugs that NEED to be fixed. I was also debating to posting to wipe rankings as well but changed my mind because of the time and energy invested already. No thanks on the clean slate. Cheaters will always find a new way to exploit. I hate the concept of "to punish the few you have to punish the many".

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Originally Posted by Calmdown

The only people that no wipe benefits are the people that have a high rating due to exploits and will happily play no games to keep that rating. It happens in every ranking system that isnt actively monitored and hasn't implemented decay.

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Is the top 20 list the reason to worry about people holding their rank by not playing?

Maybe they could institute a second top 20 list: Highest ranked active players?

Should this improvement fix the issue of DEFEATs? Eg i just had game againts xhxbxbxnxnx (326, i had 281) . I was at 80% hp, he was below 50%, i had 3 allies on board (including his stolen stormcaller), he had 0. He played Boris, had no chance to reset the board and recover from there, i would finish him off next turn even without bloodlust with the allies on my board alone (i was wearing his The King's Pride as well). He disconnected at the begining of his turn, i got the DEFEAT message and lost the rating although he had no chance from there to recover. This happens basically everytime when i play againts a higher rated player and get in a position where it's clear he cannot win. He leaves, and in more than 50% i get the DEFEAT message and lose rating. How exactly this is calculated? Especially as this even wasn't a timeout, he left instantly at the start of his turn. I think in that cases regardless of anything, the lefting player should be the loser.

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Originally Posted by Codepunk

The difference is that if everyone starts at 0, it will only make it even MORE difficult for people to gain rating, a point that everybody already complains about. It will take forever before we gain any kind of rating spread, because there will be no high rating players to fight. So yes, both options have the same long-term end result, but not wiping will achieve that result MUCH faster.

And not ALL current ratings are broken, only those who actively used exploits, generally those of really high ranking who soon will no longer be in that position, and then ratings will once again be accurate. I see no benefit to wiping rating...it simply slows everything down to a near halt. If things are left how they are, the exploiter's ratings will rapidly decrease and then ratings WILL mean something, in a lot shorter time than starting from scratch.

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The point being that most high ranked players will avoid playing games to stay highly ranked. A reset is a true way to have the top 20. It would be nice to have new people in the top 20. While i still think some of the people already in top 20 can still be top 20 i would like to see people show this themselves. I was top 20 and today decided i coudl just sit at my ranking and stay at top 20 or just play the game and loose rating. I decided to play to lose rating. I even have another account with 4 of each card but chose to just play and get my appropriate rank.

Obviously i shouldn't be top 20 as i dropped out quite quickly. with 5 Wins and 3 Lossess i dropped 15 Points.

*****
If a ranking reset is done it has to be done once pairing is more accurate. Meaning playing someone maybe a max of 25-50 pt diff and not 100-150.
*****

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Originally Posted by Ringel

Is the top 20 list the reason to worry about people holding their rank by not playing?

Maybe they could institute a second top 20 list: Highest ranked active players?

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Yeah there's something similar like this in the GameCenter rankings where you can change the ranking list based on for the day, the week or for all time. Also I disagree about a ratings wipe. With the fixes that Kyle has just put in, this should slowly but eventually even out the ratings for those unskilled players on top. And if there are players you do not want to lose rank so decides to just stop playing, then kyle did mention he might be implementing a decay to the rating.

Drop everyone above 400 rating down to 400 rating, problem solved

For posterity, as of 2011.03.31 this is the top 20:
1 Dash2Death 566
2 Icenova 549
3 arebelspy 539
4 Phoenix81 534
5 Royal 529
6 Seongjae 520
7 Noreen 519
8 timmy105 518
9 bombazza 513
10 Mauro231 512
11 PFC 508
12 Ale4g 508
13 Legendary 502
14 Takamachi 498
15 leoho1 497
16 Cannabis Kid 495
17 InDaHole 495
18 Draco 490
19 OIZI 486
20 Blaz3r 485

I've noticed that the bottom of the top 20 has already dropped 10 rating points. We can keep this here and compare it weekly to see who's active and who's not.

And I do agree that the brackets are too wide. 50 point spread should be fine.

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Originally Posted by Kadun

For posterity, as of 2011.03.31 this is the top 20:
1 Dash2Death 566
2 Icenova 549
3 arebelspy 539
4 Phoenix81 534
5 Royal 529
6 Seongjae 520
7 Noreen 519
8 timmy105 518
9 bombazza 513
10 Mauro231 512
11 PFC 508
12 Ale4g 508
13 Legendary 502
14 Takamachi 498
15 leoho1 497
16 Cannabis Kid 495
17 InDaHole 495
18 Draco 490
19 OIZI 486
20 Blaz3r 485

I've noticed that the bottom of the top 20 has already dropped 10 rating points. We can keep this here and compare it weekly to see who's active and who's not.

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Im gone =( lol

If you notice all the high rank players, have not played any games, their rank has remained unchanged.

These Have not moved at all since i ususally keep track of them. I highly doubt i will see any of them play any games for a week or so. If then. im sure they are hard at work on their new accounts =P

1 Dash2Death 566
2 Icenova 549
3 arebelspy 539
4 Phoenix81 534
5 Royal 529

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Originally Posted by N3rd4Christ

Im gone =( lol

If you notice all the high rank players, have not played any games, their rank has remained unchanged.

These Have not moved at all since i ususally keep track of them. I highly doubt i will see any of them play any games for a week or so. If then. im sure they are hard at work on their new accounts =P

1 Dash2Death 566
2 Icenova 549
3 arebelspy 539
4 Phoenix81 534
5 Royal 529

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No rating changed doesn't mean I haven't played. I need to win many times in a row to get 1 point up. Now I'm at 535 rating. Satisfied?

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/u...1/0b9b7ba4.png

Posts dealing with unpatched exploits have been quietly swept under the rug until a fix is released. Please pm me directly rather than discussing exploits in the forums or risk the appearance of the almighty banhammer

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Originally Posted by Kyle

Posts dealing with unpatched exploits have been quietly swept under the rug until a fix is released. Please pm me directly rather than discussing exploits in the forums or risk the appearance of the almighty banhammer

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YES All Mighty Thor! But on a serious note, perhaps the suggestion of 400+ players dropping to 400 would help. And I thought the cap was 500? What happened to that?

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Originally Posted by Sorter

YES All Mighty Thor! But on a serious note, perhaps the suggestion of 400+ players dropping to 400 would help. And I thought the cap was 500? What happened to that?

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Some people are just that good at exploiting.

I just got a Multiplayer Sync Issue against a player I dropped to 7HP and without possible winning possibilities.

His Name is Subaltern Lee (playing Gwynneth and ranking near 300).

Very frustrating and sad for SE, I think I Will afk sometimes from the Game too..

I've had quite a few multiplayer sync warnings from people quitting when they are about to lose, but I've found that if I just wait out the timer they end up coming back in the last few seconds and then I get to win. People are still trying to game the exploit not realizing that it's been patched on the back end.

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Originally Posted by Kyle

Posts dealing with unpatched exploits have been quietly swept under the rug until a fix is released. Please pm me directly rather than discussing exploits in the forums or risk the appearance of the almighty banhammer

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Is that so?

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Originally Posted by Kyle

Posting bugs or exploits in the forums is fine, it gives me a sense how important an issue is to the players...

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I guess you've since, revised your opinion. I thought the first quote was the way it should be so I followed that until I was proven wrong and then met with the second quote. So I follow that and try to instill a sense of importance on a different exploit but then was wrong again. Guess I really need to figure out how to do things right.

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Originally Posted by AnAdolt

I guess you've since, revised your opinion. I thought the first quote was the way it should be so I followed that until I was proven wrong and then met with the second quote. So I follow that and try to instill a sense of importance on a different exploit but then was wrong again. Guess I really need to figure out how to do things right.

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I think Kyle's just winging it. I become increasingly convinced he's trying to run this whole shindig by himself.

Removing evidence of an exploit that is, to say the least, entirely game breaking, is a good idea. It's hardly sweeping it under the rug or a bad thing, the last thing we want is more people trying to cheat.

Him welcoming feedback and deleting evidence of an exploit that can be reproduced by anyone with some knowledge and Google does jot mean he's having a sudden change of policy, it's just sensible. Let's not get semantic for the sake of it.

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Originally Posted by Calmdown

Now wipe the stats and stop pussyfooting around the issue! You've gone most of the way. Finish the race.

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No need to wipe the whole ranks, just 400+ need to come down.

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Originally Posted by Calmdown

Let's not get semantic for the sake of it.

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I see.

tenletters