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  1. #21
    DP Visionary Warr Byrd's Avatar
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    Most of the top players already post their deck lists for at least some of their decks, if not their tournament decks. Even if they don't, you can get some idea by seeing what advice they give to new players who post their own deck lists.

    Furthermore, the only people who would benefit from this are the people who already frequent the forums, who also happen to be the people who don't really need the information.

    I could see making permanent links to videos of the finals games, but not mandatory posting of deck lists. It might be helpful in other card games where there isn't as much of a coherent global community, but in Shadow Era all the information is already gathered in one place.
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  2. #22
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    Far more people read the forums than are involved in competitive clans.

    Even more people might read the forums (or use community resources) if there was a repository of tournament decklists.

    Even more people might get good at the game instead of quitting in frustration if they had the tools to help themselves get past the first hurdle of playing the game which is "which of these cards is any good and how do I make a deck out of them"? Yes, there are decks on the forum at the moment but they're all over the place, the vast majority are "creative" rogue decks that won't win many games, particularly at lower levels, or just outright bad.

  3. #23
    Senior Member stevevai1983's Avatar
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    for people who active in forum, they will know finalist names and check the match replays.
    So they will know their deck and how to play them. Seriously, watch replay is far more useful than read deck list.

    for people who do not use this forum, even you put all the deck lists.. they won't know it LOL
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  4. #24
    DP Visionary Warr Byrd's Avatar
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    The majority of decks on the forums are by people who are trying to get into the game and are asking for assistance. The majority of decks that have been posted by people with more than 50 posts are actual competitive decks.

    Also, most of what you are calling "competitive clans" are guilds that help newer players and post stuff for the entire community on the forum. They also generally don't have any requirements beyond wanting to improve in the game, so any player can make use of them.

    Anyone who wants to do well in a tournament should be spending at least 15 minutes on the forum every couple of days trying to determine the meta and good deck compositions, and posting deck lists isn't going to change the amount of effort one bit. If anything, it will make more mediocre players, because they will think that just knowing some good deck lists will make them tournament worthy when they have no idea how the deck is supposed to work.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychobabble View Post
    Far more people read the forums than are involved in competitive clans.

    Even more people might read the forums (or use community resources) if there was a repository of tournament decklists.

    Even more people might get good at the game instead of quitting in frustration if they had the tools to help themselves get past the first hurdle of playing the game which is "which of these cards is any good and how do I make a deck out of them"? Yes, there are decks on the forum at the moment but they're all over the place, the vast majority are "creative" rogue decks that won't win many games, particularly at lower levels, or just outright bad.
    I disagree with this, both the amber decks in the top 4 were not standard and should not be recommended to beginners(no 2 drop in one and dirk as a 2 drop in the other), this could lead to beginners having frustrating loses without the knowledge of why these decks were constructed in these ways. I would also not recommend Zhanna as a beginner hero as she requires great match up knowledge as well as good game sense(I would recommend playing 5-6 other heroes from various classes before trying out zhanna).

  6. #26
    Senior Member Seth's Avatar
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    I'll say one thing here: People weren't expecting it, so I understand GDC's stance on not posting the lists. However, for future events where it could be announced before the start - it is good, proper, and healthy for the game and community to have top decklists posted. It allows some amount of learning to flow down to the less active or less community engaged players, and if the people at the top of tournaments are ACTUALLY the best, then they can adjust and evolve to stay ahead of the game. Coming from the broader TCG culture, when I see people winning major public events and not sharing their lists, I actually consider it rude.

  7. #27
    Europe Regional (Winter 2012) Champion jacqui's Avatar
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    You can have my deck. I think it's pretty terrible so I wouldn't recommend anyone copying it unless you're absolutely new and would like an average deck at best.


    EDIT by GDC:

    http://shadowera.gondorian.com/deck1....3se182.4se184
    Last edited by Gondorian; 06-18-2012 at 08:29 AM.

  8. #28
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    There's a lot of bad arguments that are being made against decklists being posted.

    Most of the tournament participants already post their decklists? Cool, no problem posting lists then.

    Competitive guilds help out new players and share information anyway? Cool, no problem posting lists then.

    The information is available if you go out and search replays? Cool, no problem posting lists then.

    The decklists are finely tuned and shouldn't be played by new players? I can guarantee you that the majority of the decks will be better than the majority of decks posted on the forums (which are difficult to find anyway) and they'll certainly be better than the 85 card elementalist deck featuring bloodstone-alter and here be monsters #53 I've met in quickmatches.

    None of the above are reasons to not post tournament decklists.

    Put it this way. Lets say I'm a person who's not new to the genre but is new to the game looking to get into MTG. I go to the front page of their official site and just today is event coverage and top-32 decklists for the latest standard tournament. Then I realise I dont have a bajillion dollars to spend on a standard deck, so I decide check out some cheaper formats like pauper or block constructed. Again, on the front page, is winning decklists for all online tournaments for all formats in the past week so I can take a look around and see what's being played in tournament-proven decks. The barriers to entry (other than financial!) for a new player to get up and running with the basic tools to be able to start winning games of magic are massively reduced just from those easily accessible lists.

    All I'm asking is for a forum or section of the official forums to have a "tournament decklist" post. The top X lists from any major tournament get posted there. A new person can visit the forum, find a recent tournament and go "oh, so that's what people are playing, cool". Stuff like Wtzky's guides being in the new player forums are great, but at the end of the day what new people really need are decklists, the lists linked at the bottom of those posts are static and most of them are very old by now. And the lists that you can find on individual hero forums are a massive grab bag of random.

    As I said, I understand that if this wasn't a part of the recent tourney rules then GDC probably shouldn't post without permission, but I encourage him to ask people if they're willing to let him post their decks and then do so, and then in future they should institute automatic posting.
    Last edited by psychobabble; 06-18-2012 at 03:49 AM.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Helio's Avatar
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    While it would be interesting to see the decks, I dont see why it would have to be a requirement for future tournaments.

    Beginner's won't know how to play it right.

    Ave players might be able to win with the deck but won't get a high rating or win any tournament with it.

    Expert players probably already have something similar in mind... and reviewing a couple games is probably all they need to come up with a similar deck.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helio View Post
    While it would be interesting to see the decks, I dont see why it would have to be a requirement for future tournaments.

    Beginner's won't know how to play it right.

    Ave players might be able to win with the deck but won't get a high rating or win any tournament with it.

    Expert players probably already have something similar in mind... and reviewing a couple games is probably all they need to come up with a similar deck.
    Unless you have lots of alt accounts, you probably haven't played in the sub 200 ratings band for a while. I can tell you now, a huge proportion of decks that I run into that are sub 200 rating have lost the game before it even starts because their list is terrible. Take a look at this guy for the sort of awesome brews that people come up with when they start out in this game on their own.

    Posting tournament decklists doesn't hurt anyone, but if done in an even moderately visible way (sticky post in the forums saying here are some tournament proven decklists) it makes it a hell of a lot easier for people to get themselves started.

    I do agree with you that the category of players that this affects the least is expert level players either because they already have the lists or know enough that they don't need the information.

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