Gambit

[Silverclaw]

Why Gambit dont kill ally when they reduced to 1 hp cuz of shard?

[Veles]

Cuz unnecessary complicated rules.

Apparently there is hidden real health for an ally under shard. So stuff that are temporary health reducers like Gambit don't work.

More on this here: http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....Hunters-Gambit Even if the thread is about another real bug, it explains Gambit vs Shard interaction.

Someone should really make thread with explanation and sticky it as this question always comes up. Seriously why won't DT change the ruling about this since nobody would care if shard ally dies to Gambit as EVERYONE assumes it should.

[maxi1230]

+1 for veles

[Gondorian]

Cuz unnecessary complicated rules.

Apparently there is hidden real health for an ally under shard. So stuff that are temporary health reducers like Gambit don't work.

More on this here: http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....Hunters-Gambit Even if the thread is about another real bug, it explains Gambit vs Shard interaction.

Someone should really make thread with explanation and sticky it as this question always comes up. Seriously why won't DT change the ruling about this since nobody would care if shard ally dies to Gambit as EVERYONE assumes it should.

There are ongoing modifiers (+/- health) and then there are ongoing effects that are not modifiers. Shard is the latter. It puts a continuous condition on the board stating all your allies' HPs are capped at 1HP overruling whatever each really does have.

Hopefully, this is something everyone can agree on when there are no modifiers involved!

Let's continue ...

A critical thing about Shard is that if it enters play and then leaves play, it should be as though it never entered in the first place. It must be able to toggle, in other words. There would be no way to restore the state without having an underlying uncapped health.

Now, onto modifiers. A modifier is just part of a calculation used to give you the health value. If one can pretend health always has a modifier of +0, then one can accept that there could be an underlying modified uncapped health at all times just like we've agreed there is an underlying uncapped health when there is no modifier, right?

Then there is the fact that ongoing modifiers have no precedence. There is no SRO order. You just calculate the modifier and apply it. To require people to remember the order they were played would be insane. It's for this reason that if you play a modifier now, it does not suddenly affect the capped value that was shown but it becomes part of the modifier calculation that is always being done.

The ruling will not change, in other words, but I will continue to paraphrase and re-explain until more people grok it.

[a player]

What would be the effect if everything worked as Gondorian stated above, but allies continued to show their ACTUAL uncapped health, and players simply had to remember that if they see Shard of Power in play they only need to hit with enough force to do one damage to kill each ally?

It's always seemed strange to me for SoP to cause a different stat to appear in place of actual health, and then have other things act on the basis of the hidden value.

[Silverclaw]

Thank you for this great answers ^^

i got it now. But veles is right, when he say it is complicated. A new player will close to always think gambit kill this ally.

[Gondorian]

What would be the effect if everything worked as Gondorian stated above, but allies continued to show their ACTUAL uncapped health, and players simply had to remember that if they see Shard of Power in play they only need to hit with enough force to do one damage to kill each ally?

It's always seemed strange to me for SoP to cause a different stat to appear in place of actual health, and then have other things act on the basis of the hidden value.

It would make it easier for both to know the underlying health, but maybe that's part of the power of Shard, as I've said before elsewhere. The need to track what's really going on makes it a PITA for opponent (and you, if you aren't really on the ball). In a similar situation to this, I quite regularly end up having my own Champ of Irum die because I kill off an opposing ally, since I didn't realise 1HP of his was being caused by that ally. It's part of the learning curve and where pro players can get a slight edge.

Since Kyle is going to add a tool-tip for keywords soon, I think there's also an option to add a tool-tip showing underlying health as well, when Shard is modifying it.

BTW, I fixed Holy Shield to temporarily give enough health to live (min health of 1HP, so inverse of Shard of Power) in 2.85, since it specifically says the ally can't be killed, so death by health reduction or negative health modifier should not be possible. And then we get the same situation of there being an unknown underlying health that will not be seen again until Holy Shield is removed. A tooltip there would be useful too!