Have your say on balance (of SF and LL)!

[highmystica]

LET ME CLEAR MY THROAT: just because vic won wc does not in anyway make him op, period. end of discussion. Don't kill vic like you killed jerry. I don't use either, but I like the challenge of making decks to rise to the challenge. Ah, remember how millstalker came from nowhere to dominate a amber held meta. No nerfs were involved. Screaming for endless nerfs rather than actually thinking how to balance it, and not accepting the fact that a given build can easily be dropped with cards we already have. We still got the same paper rock sissors spock lizard thing going on. Every year a different hero will be on top.

Actually, another thing to consider is are you calling far a nerf because your favourite hero can't face off top tier using your preferred build from six months or longer ago, or have you called for a nerf because you have used said deck and you feel ashamed because it is almost like you are cheating?

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[Fenelon]

There is a difference between Gambit and IGG : there is many more counter cards to IGG than to Gambit and these counters can be used in the other situations. That's also why Wrath of the Forest is less a problem than Gambit.

There is very few cards that can exile something from the graveyard : i see Wizent's Prayer or Gravemonger. Those 2 cards are not very useful in the game. The other way to prevent Gambit is not playing allies : that is not possible for most of the heroes.

I think the main problem is the synergy between Anmor's Call and Gambit. I really like the nerf that have been proposed on Anmor's Call. "Exile the top card of your graveyard". It would nerf that fat Vic without nerfing other build. But Gondo already made his choice, so wait and see

[highmystica]

here's a thought to mess with you. Moonstalker is my fav hero. I hate millstalkers. So take the last rushstalker build I posted and swap out aldmor style. Don't you feel like dirty cheap fool? Is it rush, is it stall. It is pure evil. Had you thought of it, have you tried it.

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[highmystica]

another thought: did you look at the posted card list for those builds and go in typical weak ass hipster TROLL form this is how that card beats me and man cry to wulven, or did you go like um I need this card to counter that, need to adjust my resource curve ... hmm, need that extra resource to make room for this card need to swap something else out for something cheaper and so on.

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[highmystica]

Ancient and once famous quote regarding the buffing of logan. "Amber is the reason we can't have good things"

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[Gondorian]

There is a difference between Gambit and IGG : there is many more counter cards to IGG than to Gambit and these counters can be used in the other situations. That's also why Wrath of the Forest is less a problem than Gambit.

There is very few cards that can exile something from the graveyard : i see Wizent's Prayer or Gravemonger. Those 2 cards are not very useful in the game. The other way to prevent Gambit is not playing allies : that is not possible for most of the heroes.

I think the main problem is the synergy between Anmor's Call and Gambit. I really like the nerf that have been proposed on Anmor's Call. "Exile the top card of your graveyard". It would nerf that fat Vic without nerfing other build. But Gondo already made his choice, so wait and see

The already made choice to tackle Gambit instead of Anmor's Call is because resources don't mean much without draw. Also you can run a fat Vic without Anmor's Call. It's easy to sac up to the amount you need when you can draw that much. Just find that first HG and play it every 4 turns. No other hero can do so much draw with their ability - Majiya and Aramia and Gravebone get 1 card per 4 turns.

Yes, it will hurt the slim Vic who previously might have drawn 4 cards with one copy of Gambit by T8 (not including the Gambit you got back), but don't you think that amount of draw is a bit too high? If Victor is on the scrap-heap without that, then couldn't we give him good non-draw cards rather than breach a fundamental rule of SE balance that draw should not be too easy to get and a sub-rule that Hunters are not meant to be the kings of draw?

[Fenelon]

The already made choice to tackle Gambit instead of Anmor's Call is because resources don't mean much without draw. Also you can run a fat Vic without Anmor's Call. It's easy to sac up to the amount you need when you can draw that much. Just find that first HG and play it every 4 turns. No other hero can do so much draw with their ability - Majiya and Aramia and Gravebone get 1 card per 4 turns.

Yes, it will hurt the slim Vic who previously might have drawn 4 cards with one copy of Gambit by T8 (not including the Gambit you got back), but don't you think that amount of draw is a bit too high? If Victor is on the scrap-heap without that, then couldn't we give him good non-draw cards rather than breach a fundamental rule of SE balance that draw should not be too easy to get and a sub-rule that Hunters are not meant to be the kings of draw?

Yes I totally understand that point and I mainly agree to this. I think Anmor's Victor was the main problem, he really parasited the meta after new year. But yes Gambit recycling offer too much draw for Victor and breaking it will allow to see new deck building.

But I'm still afraid Anmor's Call will be very strong with Lost Land part 2. Hunting Party, Rain of Arrows and Krugal Lookout (with Bad Santa) seem to be very strong in synergy with Anmor Call.

[dejvo]

Yes I totally understand that point and I mainly agree to this. I think Anmor's Victor was the main problem, he really parasited the meta after new year. But yes Gambit recycling offer too much draw for Victor and breaking it will allow to see new deck building.

But I'm still afraid Anmor's Call will be very strong with Lost Land part 2. Hunting Party, Rain of Arrows and Krugal Lookout (with Bad Santa) seem to be very strong in synergy with Anmor Call.

Anmor call is nowhere near op, only Vic can make use of it. The trouble (though I don't see it as trouble) with fat vic is vics ability + tons of draw, especially general. No other hunter can pull off fat deck in a way Vic can thanks to gambit. Gambit was introduced to help Vic, as he was T3 hero and made him straight T1. I'd still much rather see stop Vic pulling things from GY, but if that's option Gambit exile nerf is ok. Fat Vic will be still strong with this

[dejvo]

How about a proper proof about how Gambit is OP? .

First to nerf was actually CoF, I said then that it is just useless nerf and switched to Wotf. As I said in my previous post, no other hunter can pull of fat anmor in a way that Vic can, I've tried Badu (who profits from new gambit greatly) and Vox and those decks are nowhere near as good as Vic. Gambit recycling is just too good

[Fenelon]

Anmor call is nowhere near op, only Vic can make use of it. The trouble (though I don't see it as trouble) with fat vic is vics ability + tons of draw, especially general. No other hunter can pull off fat deck in a way Vic can thanks to gambit. Gambit was introduced to help Vic, as he was T3 hero and made him straight T1. I'd still much rather see stop Vic pulling things from GY, but if that's option Gambit exile nerf is ok. Fat Vic will be still strong with this

I didn't said Anmor was OP I just said the problem was that Vic deck with Anmor was the problem of the meta. But in the future I think Anmor can be stronger even with these low cost abilities and ally cards that synergy well with Anmor. But we have to wait the release to see if I'm right or if I'm totally wrong.