twilight nerf thread

[mindy]

someone called for a twilight nerf thread so here it is. nerf this tribe to dust. i used to think aldmor were the most annoying tribe but twilights take the prize. also change the tribe name to cockroaches. lorhorn should be exiled and its controller ability should cost 1 se. avatar should only bring back 2 allies and or they should be exiled together with her when killed. no haste ability for luminary or maybe target twilight has haste. scriptures limit to 3 draws and destroy it. and nerf ritualist because 2 cc for any 4 cc card is op. many ways to balance these pests.

[Snowstalker]

Nerf nerf threads.

[trevorJacobs]

Now, i don't often call for nerfs, and i'm not sure i agree with Mindy's combative approach to this ... nonetheless, Twilight in their current state are very strong.

Gondorian is balancing, and likes some examples to support this, so in the spirit of being constructive:
- Twilight Lumiary: we know that haste and seek are both individually very powerful; being able to add haste to ALL twilights is very destructive, especially combined with Twilight Champion / Warden, and anything that allows you to kill other twilights (e.g. Lorhon, Headdress, ally ability)
- Twilight Avatar: you already get a lot from Twilights going to the graveyard (stats boost (TC, TH), draw (scriptures), item destruction (ritualist)), but now you can bring them back! Further, it's easy to get their health back up with Lifebringer, and Opportunist even gets an attack increase!
- Twilight Matriarch: not ridiculous in itself, but once hasted, it can attack (4) and allow another ally to go twice - problem lies with Luminary
- Twilight Orphic: this is really good; no change required

Other combos:
- triggering death at end of turn is a good price, but you can pay this price once for several effects (stat increase, item destruction, seek (Lorhon), health reduction) - you get a lot out of ally death AND you can bring them back again!
- avoiding death: Eidolon is a great card, and is the backbone of Twilight; but once you can get so much out of one ally death (see above), having that ally then NOT DIE is very strong!
- scriptures further adds to this - allowing you to refill. As predicted elsewhere the 'nerf' was actually a buff in disguise: you can keep it in play, top up gradually, never over-fill...

One suggestion: take the haste effect off Luminary - that alone might solve it. If this feels too much, perhaps "1: target Twilight ally has haste"

As i say, not screaming NERFBAT here, but articulating how Twilight have tipped into 'a bit too good' in the hope that the balancing process behind the scenes will look here soon...

[trevorJacobs]

Nerf nerf threads.

Lol

But *sometimes* they have a place? *Sometimes* things are a bit too good? Gondorian has specifically asked people to highlight where this is the case to assist in balancing, so it's not, in itself, wrong...

[maskee]

I agree with twilight nerf... unfortunately mindy made this threat so not sure if someone will take it serious ;-)

[Fristar]

Agreed

[trevorJacobs]

I agree with twilight nerf... unfortunately mindy made this threat so not sure if someone will take it serious ;-)

... indeed ... hence my (more moderate) supporting comments!

[mindy]

i just made this thread as a formality. people are already discussing twilight nerfs in random threads so.

[maxi1230]

And make Ritualist back to old form please

[Spieler]

Why did the Ritualist gain a buff? He was even before LL a staple for Twilights and now he gained a buff... Why?
But the real problem with Twilights aren't the all in one card Twilights Ritualist, no the real problem is the Luminarch.

Before LL: Twilights have many decentish cards and few very powerful cards
After LL: Twilights have many decentish cards and many powerful cards

Now Twilights have extrem good draw, tribe haste, seek, very good survibilty & are extrem powerful and low cost.
Think without a nerf, we gain a Twilights Meta ):