1.28 Killed my Victor

[TheInsomniac]

I like playing with Victor. It's a challenge, the hunter has some obvious weaknesses. However, I built a deck that does very well at avoiding the difficulties, and I've had some success. Now I hate to be the type to whine about rule changes, but 1.28 has seriously destroyed my Victor deck. Here's why.

Because Victor 1.27 lacked a hero ability that used shadow points I liked to bring in cards that used them (BDB, Gravedigger's Cloak, etc.). And because Victor had +1 to both attack/defend, it naturally made him more of a defensive deck, compared to the +2 attack heroes. Using SS, and Crimson Vest against stall decks, and Victor could stick around forever. The major drawback to this deck was that the healing relies on having opponent allies to attack. However, with an inherent weapons focus in the build, and cards like Rapid Fire, Victor could deal some damage with his +1 attack. Using cheap allies early, and weapons ASAP, I managed to move up the rankings. There were still problems with the Hunters of not having item destruction and being card limited. Lots of weapons with Victor meant a strategy of burning through opponents' items, and the use of the Shadow Cloak was one way to add cards to the deck. Lily Rosecuts helped bring back destroyed items.

So what did they do but change his ability so that the deck relies even more on needing allies to kill. Against decks with no allies, his new ability is useless. Meanwhile, it costs 4 shadow points, so the previous strategy of using BDB and Shadow Cloak now falls flat. Because Victor no longer has his +1 to attack/defend, he's basically lost massive amounts of damage each game, and lost massive amounts of healing that was possible with SS before. Lowering an enemy to 1 HP is useful once in a blue moon. But that causes what, 3-4 damage? With the previous +1 to att/def, SS could cause 5 additional damage, and as much as 15 heal points (or 25 if Crimson Vest was out). Now, that much healing rarely happened. But maybe each SS would typically generate 6-9 heal points. What makes it even worse is that previously Victor would do 3 attack damage with SS. Now he does only 2 (and 1 with BDB). This means his attacks are FAR more likely to result in not killing an ally, and the loss of Victor's HP (not to mention not getting the HP bonus for a successful kill). We're talking a 10-15 net hit points previously being replaced with an ability that uses 4 SP but only causes 3-4 HP of damage.

The net loss here for Victor is TREMENDOUS. Well, at least the new ability gives you the top hunter card back from the graveyard. That would be great if most of the hunter cards weren't total SHITE. And once again, what good is getting back an arrow from the graveyard if your opponent never played an ally for you to use that arrow against?

I absolutely hate this change. I'm not sure now whether to abandon playing Victor, or try to find some reworked strategy. As of now I'm not sure that it's worth trying to fix the deck because it would be entirely different. I might as well try a hero I haven't played with if I'm going to make that kind of a change.

OK, rant off. Feel free to disagree with me assessment here if you like.

[iClipse]

Victor's new ability is awesome. Arguably the best of all heroes (except maybe Logan, but that's my bias). The problem he has now is: he has an AWEFUL card pool. I mean, you can use your ability fine, but if there is nothing useful to bring back, then it's not really helping him a lot.

The 1.27 had one thing going for him. With his ability, weapons were fairly powerful, now, when he needs to fall back on hunter abilities and less on weapons, it becomes really obvious that the hunter pool is not as good as it should/could be.

Though, while I think Victor sucks right now, that's nothing that can't be fixed in the future. Once deathracing becomes less the trend, you'll be able to use him again.

[kentuequi]

You can still ressource the card you bring back with victor's ability if it's so bad, and keep the good cards you draw.

[TheInsomniac]

Victor's new ability is awesome.

See, that's funny, because I don't see how losing 1 damage on every att/def is compensated by being able to do 3-4 damage every 4th round (IF your opponent uses allies). Remember, that +1 att/def could be used against the enemy hero. I've gone from having a very successful deck to getting wiped out easily with this update. I probably need to make some changes, but it's hard to imagine any of the new cards being game-changers unless I adopt an entirely new strategy.

Doing only 1 damage with BDB is probably the most frustrating thing. Being able to trot out a 2 point attack from at T4 was awesome. A round or two later, and I had a 3/5 ally out of it. Now I have to decide if I want to use my 4 SP to raise BDB to an ally, or burn them so that BDB as a weapon can use its 1 HP of damage to actually take out an enemy that has been reduced to 1 HP by Victor's ability. In which case I have to wait to turn 8 to convert BDB to an ally, but of course by that point it will be gone.

The loss of Victor's old ability massively reduces the damage he causes, and it majorly weakens the usefulness of BDB and SS.

[iClipse]

Errr.. If you think Victor was so awesome, why didn't you use Gwen then?

Either way, now at least you can take care of any ally, including allies like Raven and Aeon.

[Caitlyn0]

you are looking at things wrong. yes, there are allyless decks out there, adjust in game. sac the arrows and traps. use the SE to make BDB an ally. have a couple of gravediggers in there too, sac them if you play allies. you arent going to have an arrow in the graveyard to bring back if your opponent is allyless... and did you forget? into the forst and surprise attack are hunter cards too, as is AIMED SHOT, hint hint. you also have misplaced and poor quality now for help with items. they actually do help. playing an allyless mage... night prowler is awesome, takes those burn cards right out of their hand... and without being ble to attack you, you keep the armor or they have to waste resouces to get rid of it.

he is different now, and i know your pain (read my sig) and you loved playing him before and wish you still could. but he did get better and more playable.

[GS]

This version victor is deadly versus any ally deck.

He does have a hard time with allyless decks but that's no reason to say he's worse.

Almost nobody ever played victor in 27. He got a much needed buff.

Now jericho... that's another argument entirely.

[TheInsomniac]

arrows and traps. BDB a couple of gravediggers into the forst and surprise attack AIMED SHOT misplaced and poor quality night prowler

You've just advocated including everything in the deck. That's not very feasible because you aren't going to happen to get the cards you need against the type of player you are playing. Surprise attack does help by increasing draws, though. And strategy adjusting for each player helps, but I was doing pretty well before this change. I think part of the reason that people found Victor unplayable was because they played him wrong. He was one of the few characters who did really well with a strategy focused mostly on low-level allies, and high-level weapons/armor. He was challenging because of the lack of item destruction, and not having a card engine. But that was the challenge to overcome. It was fun to win without board-clearing, item-clearing, draw engines, and all the other overused ways of the game.

As for AIMED SHOT, well, that card was POS before, so I sold mine. I guess now they are more useful and I could buy a few. But I've also had to add misplaced, poor quality, more arrows, etc. to make this deck work. It's definitely a steamroller deck now, and my games are lasting much longer. I'll admit that I have come to like the new ability, but it's required completely changed my strategy away from using all of those expensive weapons and armor that I had invested in (Crimson Vest, SS, etc.) I will admit that it does seem to make the other armors more useful, though. Guardian Bow is still worthless. And since games are lasting longer, I'm getting to use my Ravens and Aeons more frequently.

Errr.. If you think Victor was so awesome, why didn't you use Gwen then?

Because, as I described above, I had a defensive strategy, and Victor was superior on defense since his +1 applied to both att&def. Slight changes to my deck and I could use Gwen, but it would have been an aggro strategy, and that's not what I was going for.

[PP Star 4ever]

Actually Victor received a buff.....
His ability have become one of the best.....Victor would have ruled 1.27 with his new ability..

[Caitlyn0]

just posting some options, you dont have to include everything