ways to defeat Amber rain going second against a semi intelligent player?

[vyander]

Well u can conclude my problem from the title. I am playing gravebone right now.
Recently I noticed each time I go second against an amber, the player uses a particular chronolgy of cards which I cant counter.
Starting with turn 4 amber also has a ressource advantage. The 2 extra ressources are mostly used to play frenzy and afterwards she cripples, retreats everything I summon. With frenzy she never runs out of cards and can exert pressure without a rest. While gargoyle can withstand aldon and puwen combination for 1 turn as soon as she gets her weapons out, there is nothing she cant take care of in the same turn it is summoned.
While in my opinion starting 2nd always portrayed an a**** card I mostly manage to deliver a proper fight against everything but Warriors and Majiya (since she will be nerfed I dont care about her that much now).
Does anyone have an advice for me? (besides telling me there are 10000 possibilities to beat that. but I am lacking the brains to understand them).
The only times I manage to stand up in such situations is if the amber has bad luck with drawing (so that she misses certain elements of this chronolgy she diligently learned by hard) or if the player isnt experienced.
Boris portrays an identical problem. The ambers I am going against seldom care about dualwield so their style is very similar. (1. exert pressure with aldon+protectors, 2. playing for time with cripple/retreat untill they can cast shardblade thingy)

[Warr Byrd]

It would be easier if we could see your deck. Just off the top of my head, I would say run some Portal so you can drop allies and attack with them before they get Crippled or Retreated. You could also run Death Mage Thaddeus, who isn't effected by Crippling BLow and does damage on entering the field if he is Retreated (although you can only play one at a time). Finally, if you run enough big allies, Amber can't Cripple or Retreat all of them.

[vyander]

my current deck is smth like( 4xmedusil, 2x thaddeus, 3xknight, 4x gargoyle, 4x snake, 4x portal, 4x lightning (used to be 2x lightning 2x bloodlust before cripple buff), 4x research, 3x shriek)
Portal doesnt work. the earliest time u can drop portal he already has 5 (+2) ressources to strengthen his dominance to an extent it cant be overcomed by a few direct attacks.
By the way the protector woman perfectly counters portal anyways. Earlier they at least payed the effort to include valiant defender to counter portal, now they dont even need to do that with a 1 cost protector.
By the time i drop a biggie its mostly game over. Even when manage to somehow built up board presence she had already used her card and ressource advantage to reduce my hp to <10.
At this point I would like ti mention I havfe tried many different scenarios (1. ally rush snake+brute+ spamm of higher ones; so that I have max ammount of creatures to back up with lightning if some of them miraculously manage to not get crippled/killed. 2. Use portal as soon as possible snce warriors cant desroy it right now,>>> failed because of the reasons above, 3. include more cretures like flayer or carniboar so that at 5 ressources with portal I can kill a protector and summmon a medusil>>> her 3 attack mostly isnt enough to change the situation+ in many other situations carniboars and flayers are kinda a hindrance)

[kamman13]

Two things- a warrior deck isn't as good without blood frenzy, and in a 40 card deck at least, they won't be drawing a BF about 25% of the time. Yeah for you. Second, bazaar helps with blood frenzy- it doesn't deny them cards, but does ensure that you draw almost as many cards as them, and that they don't run away with card advantage. But a bazaar in your deck, but only play it after they play BF.

Last, you have to realize with a mage, you are running a death race. You shouldn't be concerned with board control, you should be concerned with using your allies to both attack their hero and distract their allies from attacking your hero. Portal is very good for this strategy. Your DD spells should be used to maintain board control in between using allies, to run down their hero's life. It's a tough win even with this strategy, but I think it's the only option for a mage vs. warrior matchup in this meta.

[Sisyphos]

Well u can conclude my problem from the title. I am playing gravebone right now.
Recently I noticed each time I go second against an amber, the player uses a particular chronolgy of cards which I cant counter.
Starting with turn 4 amber also has a ressource advantage. The 2 extra ressources are mostly used to play frenzy and afterwards she cripples, retreats everything I summon. With frenzy she never runs out of cards and can exert pressure without a rest. While gargoyle can withstand aldon and puwen combination for 1 turn as soon as she gets her weapons out, there is nothing she cant take care of in the same turn it is summoned.
While in my opinion starting 2nd always portrayed an a**** card I mostly manage to deliver a proper fight against everything but Warriors and Majiya (since she will be nerfed I dont care about her that much now).
Does anyone have an advice for me? (besides telling me there are 10000 possibilities to beat that. but I am lacking the brains to understand them).
The only times I manage to stand up in such situations is if the amber has bad luck with drawing (so that she misses certain elements of this chronolgy she diligently learned by hard) or if the player isnt experienced.
Boris portrays an identical problem. The ambers I am going against seldom care about dualwield so their style is very similar. (1. exert pressure with aldon+protectors, 2. playing for time with cripple/retreat untill they can cast shardblade thingy)

Try to counter her allies with spells to take pressure off the board, use any opportunity she gives you to throw more allies at her and rely on portals for your late-game. You need a strong draw for that, like Majiya + research, or Bazaar and Santas for human mages. That said, going 2nd to a well played Amber is always an unfavorable match-up. Boris is a bit easier (not: easy) as he doesn't directly pose a threat to your hero, so you can give him a much harder time with Novas and don't need to shriek so much (gets you more conveniently to a high resource count, which is when portal really kicks ass). Shadow knights can bring back allies he kills, too.

in a 40 card deck at least, they won't be drawing a BF about 25% of the time.

~40% of the time actually. Just sayin'.

Last, you have to realize with a mage, you are running a death race. You shouldn't be concerned with board control, you should be concerned with using your allies to both attack their hero and distract their allies from attacking your hero. Portal is very good for this strategy. Your DD spells should be used to maintain board control in between using allies, to run down their hero's life. It's a tough win even with this strategy, but I think it's the only option for a mage vs. warrior matchup in this meta.

2 things to add to this: Portal-oriented shadow mages are capable of wrestling warrs down in a fight for board control and if she knows what she's doing and plays Puwen over BF by t2, amber, unlike the other warrs, outraces mages (where the others have only allies to hit hard, she has both allies and weapons), which additionally causes the problem that nova is not a good card against her and you sometimes need to take down allies with the help of fireballs.

[vyander]

Second, bazaar helps with blood frenzy

Bazaar is a doubleedged sword , a very situational card. While its useful against Warriors (and right now majiya) in many other cases this card isnt even worth the deck space. Having cards in ur deck which only prove themselves in particular matchups is very lame dont u think so? Of course I as a gravebone posses own draw (research,knight, heroe ability) but most of this options only kick in much later within the fight (when its sometimes already over). Research (while in my humble opinion sucking against bloodfrenzy) is at the very least reliable.


Nova for gravebone heh? only useful with at the very least 8 ressources(nova + ally to secure position) where the basic flow of the game is often decided. Very unreliable----->>>hurts me more than the opponent, because the only allies right know who can survive this are humies.(raven, aeon.....)
Gravebone while being a mage portrays an exception as regards of fireball and lightning. His whole ability + portal was designed for allies not for spells. Portal is only succesfull if ur deck mainly consists of allies. Item destruction and draw engine consume additional space. Gravebones deck can only handle a very limited amount of damage spells. Otherwise I am, just a weaker version of majiya.
Btw fireball and lightning are nearly perfectly countered by protector for 1 single ressource. (<no prob when u gain extra rressourcs from ur weapon

warriors deck isn't as good without blood frenzy

cripple--- take care of 80% of the creature in this whole game.
vailant defender---- counters portal, wonderful protection for creatures for 2 turns
shardsword---- dont need to add anything at this point
allies (not influenced by ur class) 1 cost protector, jasmine, aldon all excelent choices

It's a tough win even with this strategy, but I think it's the only option for a mage vs. warrior matchup in this meta.

assuming u find urself in my situation for example against amber, how exactly do u handle this situation

Amber turn1.... , turn2 puwen, turn3 aldon, turn4 shardsword+cripple everything u summoned during ur own turn 3 (probably gargoyle)------> at gravebones turn 4 she probably has puwen+ aldon/jasmine+shardsword(which deals 3 damage) +7 ressources avaible for her turn 5 and u have ur crippled gargoyle. ( maybe + a dead snake/brutalis). Now enlighten meh (sorry for sarcasasm but I cant hold back here) how can one prevent this.

[papichulo]

These are all great suggestions. Working Snow Sapphire into the deck can be useful against Amber (the only problem is that she can play smashing blow but you can replace the destroyed armor or weapon on your next turn; just make sure you do not sacrifice all of your Snow Sapphires; allow yourself to play two). The downside to Snow Sapphire is that Amber can cast a weapon on T4 and you have to wait until at least T6. The plus to SS is that you can play it before portal, so it can actually save you some time until you get your resources pumped higher to pull a fatty portal.

[poopster77]

i play a 35 card version of the speedy amber deck and honestly, gravebone is usually an easy win. I can tell you what gives me the most trouble when facing gravebone though...some of which has already been mentioned.
First, t2 allies are a must - With amber, i do not carry puwen (despite what some may think, BF on t2 is always optimal) and the more allies you have on the board early the harder it is to come back. Flayer or brute works fine - i would try a few of both actually.
second, while gargoyle is good for board control, death mage is sometimes better against amber. keldar is another seldom used option (t4 keldar ability + a 2cc ally works well) that can handle jasmine and aldon. Although i do not personally like hellsteed, if you play him on t1, flayer on t2, then mage turn 3 that can handle jasmine and aldon as well.
third, snow saphire should probably be in your deck - preferably 2 of them. Snow saphire + flame or poison can criple any hero not carrying item destruction. this combo will kill a gwen deck fast as well.
last, the key to most speedy amber decks is JD - get rid of it and it will help you out alot. I would not use shriek and instead go the 'spam ally' route to decrease durability. Shriek will kill GB fast because of lack of a decent draw engine.

looking at your deck it does not seem like you are maximizing portal. minotaur works great with portal as does bella. also, adding more t2 allies will help you out on t7 when you can cast a fatty plus a flayer or brute when portal is in play. I would go either PB or minotaur over SK - not enough health for me. these suggestions may not help your deck a ton...but they would certainly help when facing amber. To summarize, i would get rid of research (it's a waste playing it on turn 2 and only really comes in handy later in the game), add more death mage and turn 2 allies, add snow saphire, and maybe change a few fatties but add PB for sure. Consider as well adding 1 poison and 1 flame. good luck

[Sisyphos]

assuming u find urself in my situation for example against amber, how exactly do u handle this situation

Amber turn1.... , turn2 puwen, turn3 aldon, turn4 shardsword+cripple everything u summoned during ur own turn 3 (probably gargoyle)------> at gravebones turn 4 she probably has puwen+ aldon/jasmine+shardsword(which deals 3 damage) +7 ressources avaible for her turn 5 and u have ur crippled gargoyle. ( maybe + a dead snake/brutalis). Now enlighten meh (sorry for sarcasasm but I cant hold back here) how can one prevent this.

Going second to Brigitte, Puwen, Aldon, JD + CB/BF you could play:

Snake - bites Brigitte for 1, then gets killed by Puwen
Brute
Fireball against Aldon after Brute has killed Brigitte
Portal
Research & Medusil to kill Puwen

If Raven comes out by t5, brutal minotaur is the only thing that kills her right away, assuming that Amber was smart enough to not leave your Brute in play / cripple it. Otherwise Deathmage, Brute and Carniboar or Brute and Shadow Knight kill Raven, too.

Or alternatively run freeze or clinging webs to deal with Raven and other big cannons.

[ertai88]

Amber is simply more superior than GB. There are not many things GB can do when Amber has BF and JD on, and she starts spamming strong human allies turn after turn.

Amber is stronger without casting Skullborn on T1. Instead T2: BF, T3 Jasmine, T4: JD + Retreat/CB, T5: Jasmine + Aldon or Raven, T6: Aeon, T7: more and more. There's nothing GB can really do about it. BF JD Retreat CB Jasmine Aeon all these adds up will own GB.

The only chance you get is when Amber doesnt get BF sooner. But thats rare cuz a good Amber deck will also have Santa. So the odds are like 1/15 imo