finally getting somewhere xD xD

[Pie Flavor]

I'm not sure I totally agree with that. In the current meta, Mind Control is just terrible, terrible removal. Oh so you waste a card and the entire T5 to remove my gargoyle (The highest cc ally in my deck, the other being Death Mage, but that would be just lol worthy) and do 2 damage? Fine by me. A PB would be a lot more scary IMO. Sure MCing a minotaur would be awesome, but no one good plays them. MCing shadow knight is nice, but everyone sacks them against elementals for that reason (which makes MC useful as a possibility in elemental decks, but rarely worth playing against a weenie filled meta).

Well YES, if all you do is play a single MC on T5 and do nothing for the rest of the match.

MC will still be a 1 for 2 card, potentially 1 for 3 (remove protector whilst damaging enemy hero)

And shadow doesn't have retreat so they lack ally removal options

[Xen00b]

I'm not sure I totally agree with that. In the current meta, Mind Control is just terrible, terrible removal. Oh so you waste a card and the entire T5 to remove my gargoyle (The highest cc ally in my deck, the other being Death Mage, but that would be just lol worthy) and do 2 damage? Fine by me. A PB would be a lot more scary IMO. Sure MCing a minotaur would be awesome, but no one good plays them. MCing shadow knight is nice, but everyone sacks them against elementals for that reason (which makes MC useful as a possibility in elemental decks, but rarely worth playing against a weenie filled meta).

Establishing board control + doing damage to your opponent's hero =/= bad IMO.

[Raphael Majere]

I'm not sure I totally agree with that. In the current meta, Mind Control is just terrible, terrible removal. Oh so you waste a card and the entire T5 to remove my gargoyle (The highest cc ally in my deck, the other being Death Mage, but that would be just lol worthy) and do 2 damage? Fine by me. A PB would be a lot more scary IMO. Sure MCing a minotaur would be awesome, but no one good plays them. MCing shadow knight is nice, but everyone sacks them against elementals for that reason (which makes MC useful as a possibility in elemental decks, but rarely worth playing against a weenie filled meta).

It's also about the 'exhaustion' issue.

PB comes out exhausted. Which gives your opponent 1 turn to kill it before you can use PB.

That makes a huge difference.

Other options available to Elementals for instant dmg:

1. ED (Require the Sac of 1 ally and 5 life)
2. DR (2 dmg)

Hence MC runs high in a Elemental player's list of ally removal cards.

[Darkparad0x]

mc IS the only ally removal for elementals...imo i believe that if the were gunna nerf mc instead of automatically making the target of the attack the hero it should let you choose.. i mean, by time you reach enough resources to play mc, especially when going against warriors they usually have more than one buffed out ally on the board...taking out one really doesnt change much especially when aldon and war banner is in play -_- and ed is a double edged sword...kill your own ally to wipe all enemy allies....usually its not the number of allies that force players to use this, its the buffed allies that force the play of ED wich also blasts you with 5dmg however i must say that ED has saved my ass more than once..its a very good card in the right circumstances, but it can be a suicidal in others...and thats just mostly warriors and hunters...priests are also a pain in some battles... i mean...2 blakes and that protecter girl and then war banner if they can squeeze it in then they nuke you with droughts....oh that cool i'll use my low resource to blay weak cards and keep him distracted until my zaladar(if youre using zal) gets 4 se....oh REALLY??? ice storm here we go lol xD wow...i feel like i'm bitching too much... sorry guys xD

[crazygambit]

I realize MC is one of the 2 removal option elemental has, but that doesn't make it any less terrible. I guess people were so used to putting 4x in their Zaladar decks when it used to be awesome that now they'll keep playing it even if it doesn't make any sense. Removal that costs more than the stuff being removed is just ridiculous. The extra damage is hardly worthwhile. By T5 your opponent will be playing at least 2 allies per turn, if you use your whole turn to kill just 1, well you don't need to be a math genius to realize you'll be behind.

The only worthwhile use of MC is as a deception. Your opponent won't play his minotaurs or shadow knights. That's actually useful, but much like Jericho's ability, the threat is enough. You don't need to actually use it (or put it in your deck).

On the other hand Elemental has what might very well be the best board wipe in the game and it hardly sees play. I've seen many opponents fill up the board against Zaladar not even thinking he could have ED. The massive card and tempo advantage that can be gained from that should be used more IMO.

Still I don't think elementals in their current form can be very competitive. Even Wulven is better now IMO.

[Raphael Majere]

I realize MC is one of the 2 removal option elemental has, but that doesn't make it any less terrible. I guess people were so used to putting 4x in their Zaladar decks when it used to be awesome that now they'll keep playing it even if it doesn't make any sense. Removal that costs more than the stuff being removed is just ridiculous. The extra damage is hardly worthwhile. By T5 your opponent will be playing at least 2 allies per turn, if you use your whole turn to kill just 1, well you don't need to be a math genius to realize you'll be behind.

Yes, but what other options are there?

On the other hand Elemental has what might very well be the best board wipe in the game and it hardly sees play. I've seen many opponents fill up the board against Zaladar not even thinking he could have ED. The massive card and tempo advantage that can be gained from that should be used more IMO.

I agree. All the top players are using ED. I see it all the time when I play great zal players. (I just lost 2 games due to ED)

Still I don't think elementals in their current form can be very competitive. Even Wulven is better now IMO.

I disagree. My 30 card and 40 card zal is doing well on live and competitive games.

[crazygambit]

Yes, but what other options are there?

I agree. All the top players are using ED. I see it all the time when I play great zal players. (I just lost 2 games due to ED)

I disagree. My 30 card and 40 card zal is doing well on live and competitive games.

Not running removal and relying on Zal's skill, ED and more allies instead?

Bear in mind the Moonstalker mill deck isn't that bad and can easily hang at 200+. Same with Zaladar. But start getting closer to 250 and you won't be seeing either.

[Raphael Majere]

Bear in mind the Moonstalker mill deck isn't that bad and can easily hang at 200+. Same with Zaladar. But start getting closer to 250 and you won't be seeing either.

IMO, Zal is as good as Moonstalker. not better or worse.

[danae]

@crazygambit - do you have an elemental deck? I can't imagine not having MC in my deck and it's not because I've been so used to it as I've only built my Zaladar deck when the MC change was already in place. With Gargoyle as an ally, you have a pretty good chance of having him alive at turn 5. If your opponent drops a Raven, my gargoyle is useless against that. With MC, not do I only get rid of that, it allows me to do 5 damage on the hero that turn. It also allows me to kill Aeon and blast the allies behind him and possibly clear the board of 3 allies.

MC by itself is not going to give you any advantage but it's great in supporting any allies that you have on board.

[GS]

You guys are hilarious.

MC is basically 3 damage to hero or so, and an ally killed. For 5 cost.

That's like two fireballs! Or a super strong LS.

Mc is priceless vs aeon, insane vs sk, omgawesome vs pb. Lyingdragon uses it, and he's one of the, if not the best zaladar player.

ED costs 5 hp... YOUR hp. And an ally. It's not to be used lightly. What about those turns you don't have enough power on board to kill an ally? What if you need to wear down a weapn/armor?

MC in its current form is freaking awesome. You are all noobs for saying it's worthless. Any card that basically instant kills an ally is a must-have in any deck.