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  1. #41
    Senior Member bicin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killtrend View Post
    Crippling blow>retreat btw
    retreat can nullify one aeon's presence.

    plus, it's always good in any human deck.

    rogues, priests, mages, warriors, hunters can all make use of this card.

    never useless

    CB can't do anything with PB, aeon and basically against any fatty with a good ability, either passive or activated abilities.
    Last edited by bicin; 10-04-2011 at 09:12 AM.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killtrend View Post
    Crippling blow>retreat btw
    completely disagree. CB still allows jasmine, pb, aldon, aeon, etc. to use their abilities. You play a CB on my aeon, he is still gonna be preotecting my allies. You play a retreat on my aeon and all my allies are unprotected. I love it when someone uses CB on aldon...unless he comes back and destrots him i get the +1 on all my allies. Not to mention the fact that i can just retreat him later and recast him if i need to. CB = bandaid. Retreat = game changer. Just my opinion though.
    Also, CB also leaves allies out there for things like energy discharge, elementalis's ability, conversion, etc. (not sure if assasination works with it)
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  3. #43
    1.27 Tournament Champion Raphael Majere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poopster77 View Post
    completely disagree. CB still allows jasmine, pb, aldon, aeon, etc. to use their abilities. You play a CB on my aeon, he is still gonna be preotecting my allies. You play a retreat on my aeon and all my allies are unprotected. I love it when someone uses CB on aldon...unless he comes back and destrots him i get the +1 on all my allies. Not to mention the fact that i can just retreat him later and recast him if i need to. CB = bandaid. Retreat = game changer. Just my opinion though.
    Also, CB also leaves allies out there for things like energy discharge, elementalis's ability, conversion, etc. (not sure if assasination works with it)
    The inference is good, +1

  4. #44
    Senior Member Killtrend's Avatar
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    You can't use crippling blow as an elemental.

    As far as it being a band-aid, I'd say increasing their hand size and giving them the option to recast a threat isn't always optimal.

    They play bella: do you want to retreat? No. They play death Mage. Do you want to retreat? Maybe. He gets his auto damage again. Shadow knight? No. Crippling anything without a resource activated ability is usually a great idea. Protector is an exception, but you're only buying one turn.

    Also: crippling PB is smarter then retreating if you need to kill him with multiple allies already out. He has zero retaliation. If you want to stall a turn, sure. Retreat works.

    As for portal being able to be destroyed, so can jasmine right off the bat. And soul seeker. Etc.

    Assassinate costs much less than MC. That is why it has to be considered at least equal. If I had the option to run one or the other, I'd choose Assassinate. Personal preference of it's price.
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  5. #45
    Senior Member Wulven_funeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brontos View Post
    Rabit Bite is too weird, too complex and too situationnal to be top 10 material.

    I recently had a serie of loss playing Darkclaw. And while I was playing this card, I saw interesting behaviours. It will nearly never kill the target (Aeon is a pain), you will rarely kill 2 allies with it (frequently one) and it's removed by Jericho (the one playing Aeon on your face). I love it's capacity to prevent your opp from playing an ally for a turn.

    Also, to be able to play it correctly, you need the opp to have 2 allies on the board. What kind of situation is that? You can never play Rabit Bite when you have Board Control, forcing you to deal with some alllies with your own (and sometimes you don't want to, like against Raven).

    In the end, I don't see it entering the top 10. It's not universally strong enough for this.
    (and I still don't understand why it's nerfed)
    Pretty much my opinion on the card (and its nerfing) +1

  6. #46
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    I'm shocked Blood Frenzy isn't number one.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killtrend View Post
    You can't use crippling blow as an elemental.
    As far as it being a band-aid, I'd say increasing their hand size and giving them the option to recast a threat isn't always optimal.

    They play bella: do you want to retreat? No. They play death Mage. Do you want to retreat? Maybe. He gets his auto damage again. Shadow knight? No. Crippling anything without a resource activated ability is usually a great idea. Protector is an exception, but you're only buying one turn.
    i understand this. what i siad was that if you use CB against elemental he can still use those abilities with the crippled ally.

    Also, if i need to use anything on bella, i am already in trouble anyway...anything can kill her. so in summation, CB is better for shadow night, death mage, and bella (provided you can't kill her when she is cast) and i'll throw in sandra and chimera
    Retreat is better for aeon, aldon, jasmine, medusil, spark, pack wolf, hellsteed, and sentinel
    not to metion the fact that i can use retreat to undo or negate CB
    is retreat always optimal ? no, but i promise you it has shnged the game for me a lot more times than CB has. Ever had 6cc aeon retreated on turn 7 or so ? that hurts.
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  8. #48
    DP Visionary BlanketEffect's Avatar
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    Some of my thoughts on the OP:

    As far as subjective lists like this go, I'd say this list is as appropriate as any.

    Some of the arguments for people's specific cards that didn't make the list, I can understand; however a lot of those cards are usable only by one class; and, while good, not good enough, as a single-class card, to make a top 10 list.

    Rabid Bite: Great card. But, class-specific, costs 4, AND really requires opponent to have at least two allies on play to realize its potential. And, you have to use one of the two weakest classes in the game in order to have access to it in the first place. Not top-10 material IMO.

    CB: Another great card, but also class-specific, and no where near the power of the other class-specific cards on the list. As far as it bein better than Retreat!, I believe this is hogwash. Primary reason? Every Human has access to Retreat!, whereas only Warriors have CB. Also, in SE, where first strike mechanics play such a large role, I'd rather put your fatty back in your hand forcing you to spend 5-6 resources (and basically the entirety of your turn) *TWICE* for my small cost of 2. Not only that, but CB only neutralizes attacking and damage. Latent abilities such as Aldon's, Aeon's, Jasmine's, Medusil's, PB's... (you get the idea) are not addressed at all. Therefore, it's certainly not a better choice. It can do ONE thing, no matter what situation: It can neutralize an ally's combat damage. Oh, and one more thing that Jericho can neutralize. Retreat! can set someone up for getting Santa Bombed, can essentially "heal" or otherwise remove a negative effect of one of your own allies, allow Krist (or any ally with Portal) to attack twice in one round... The list goes on and on. Retreat! is far more versatile than CB although, situationally, CB can do one thing better, which is neutralizing an ally's damage output long-term. It's lack of versatility is what keeps it out of the top 10 list, for me.

    Snow Saphire: Too situational to be on the list. Is it good? Yes. Is it one of the ten best cards in the game? I don't think so at all. Maybe top 20.

    Soulseeker vs JD: Soulseeker is more or less an auto-include in any Hunter deck, JD is the same for Warriors. However, SS only conveys the top 10 punch when in reference to Gwen. Anyone else and it's just a "good" weapon. JD, on the other hand, has the acceleration bump for every Warrior that plays it. Not to mention, it's also a Wulven card. Not that Wulven are really relevant to anything in the competitive meta right now, but it is just one more way that JD is more versatile, and therefore more deserving of higher list placement, than Soulseeker.

    Fireball: Very solid card, but not one of the ten best in the set. 4 damage doesn't kill everything, and it never grants you any kind of card advantage. It's either a burn against your opponent or, at best, a 1-for-1 card exchange if you kill an ally with it.

    Mind Control: MC is the single-most powerful ally removal card in the game. Granted, it costs 5, but so what? Other than an occasional Brigette that gets in the way, it not only unilaterally removes ANY ally from play, but it almost always deals at least 3 damage to the opposin hero. Which sort of makes it a Lightning Strike for 1 more resource, except that it's a Lightning Strike that kills Raven or Aeon, or anything else, for that matter. And, as said earlier, it also causes durability loss to an opp's weapon and/or armor. - To the claim that Assassination>Mind Control, I can't get the reason here at all, except maybe that it costs 2 less to play. But, then figure in that you have to a) have an ally in play to use it, b) exhaust, and therefore forego that ally's attack, c) deals no residual damage to the opponent. Again, at best, it's a 1-for-1 card exchange that also costs you another ally's attack. Not to mention, that to use Assassinate in the first place means you've already conceded to using one of the two weakest classes in the game. The only accurate, favorable statement when comparing Assassinate to Mind Control, is that Assassinate is 2 resources cheaper.
    Last edited by BlanketEffect; 10-10-2011 at 03:58 PM.
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  9. #49
    Senior Member Caitlyn0's Avatar
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    retreat vs crippling blow. retreat is always useful, even in retreating your own card. crippling blow isnt always useful, can sometimes only give you half benefit (allies with abilities). retreat can be used by any human hero, cripplingblow only by warriors. the ONLY time crippling blow outshines retreat is when playing against a gravebone deck. then a cb on bella or SK is a game changer.

    also, this is a top ten list of the best cards in the game... not a top ten of personal favorites. if it was personal favorites we would all have different lists and not just move these cards up and down a slot. do you think that humans dominate over shadow its because of the hero? or that warriors dominate over others because of the hero? or that human hunters dominate over others besides warriors because of the hero? that the "weakest" heroes in the game, are weak because of the hero? that one class of heroes is playable by at least 75% because of one card, is because of the hero? no, its these top ten cards. human decks dominate because of those cards. warriors dominate because of those cards. human hunters dominate all except warriors because of those cards. the weakest heroes are weak because they have limited access to any of those cards and have nothing comparable. elementals are extremely more playable than wulven because of one of those cards. assassinate does not make wulven more viable, MC does make elementals more viable.

    the more cards you can use in a deck that are on that list, the more playable that hero is... ie, human warriros are the MOST dominate decks in the game. why? BECAUSE THEY CAN USE 5 CARDS OFF THAT LIST!!! add in that CB that you are agruing about and thats 6.
    Last edited by Caitlyn0; 10-10-2011 at 06:06 PM.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Brontos's Avatar
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    @Blanket: I love you.

    @Caitlyn0: if it was all about favorite cards, Cobraskin would be my first. Don't ask why... I don't even know.

    @doghouse: I hope you feel better now.
    -brontos

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