Should the hero count as a card in your deack when we go to 40 card decks?

[Negative Zer0]

So, I'm having a hard time deciding whether this is just your OCD coming through NZ

When you hold the deck in your hand, you will have 40 cards. Regardless of whether you play with one of them or not, you will have 40 cards. When you sit down to play, one of them gets stuck to one side, and becomes the focal point of the game. Everything revolves around that one card. You could argue that none of the other 39 cards matter, because you could lose any one of them, and still be playing the game, but lose the hero, and it's game over.

Playing Devil's Advocate aside, I believe it has to come down to the fact that it is a physical card. It has an ability, can attack, defend, and be killed. If it was merely a counter for your health, I'd say no, it shouldn't count, but the fact that it can interact with the game makes it a card, and that fact alone means it should count.

Its more then just OCD the even number is better for probability calculations
(the probability goes down by a very small degree but the calculations themselves are much cleaner)

But you do make some great points for counting the hero instead of just stamping your foot and saying I'm stupid for wanting to change something. I have included your post in the OP so people see it when voting as I believe its not fair to have only my opinion and arguments for the NO option in the OP.

[Darkshift07]

I can see why people would like the hero to count as a card, but I mostly see it as "that's how it's always been, leave it alone". Besides this I actually don't see any valid reason that the hero should count as a card in my deck when it never exists there during the game. Also, I'd like to see the differences in draw percentages between a 39 card deck and a 40 card deck before there's crying.

[iGiggle]

post 8, MattOG.
Check it out bud.

that was exactly what you were asking for.

[Rayzie]

I think it should be part of a 40 card deck, since IT IS A CARD. However, I voted NO because I want my playable cards to be easily divisible by 4!

Vote for a 41 card deck

[Darkshift07]

post 8, MattOG.
Check it out bud.

that was exactly what you were asking for.

errr...what? was that directed at me because that was nothing like exactly what i asked for, nor is that post 8. But I'll respond to something from that post anyway.

the fact that it can interact with the game makes it a card, and that fact alone means it should count.

If I had to pay a resource cost (like every other card in my deck) to play my hero I would 100% agree with that argument. But as it stands I disagree. By your definition (it can interact with the game, that fact alone makes it a card) any game that makes use of coin flips, die rolls, or creature tokens should count them as cards in the deck as they all can interact with the game. But the fact is: you don't draw them, and you don't pay resources to play them. If you want to pretend this is a real game with "physical cards" I'd like to remind you that if I sat down to play shadow era I'd sit out my hero then I'd shuffle up my 39 card deck. When I'm calculating draw percentages I'm calculating for 39 cards. And yet, my deck is 40 cards.

Still sounds to me like "That's how it's been, leave it alone. It's clearly how the developers want it to be so here's how I've justified it to myself try to make sense of it." Now, before you flame me and call my opinion stupid (lol), keep in mind I'm simply responding to the original question. I don't think the hero should count toward he deck size. However, why fix it if it ain't broke? There's more important changes this game needs. But my opinion stands.

[Padawan Pete]

This, like so many other things in SE (like fisrt strike), is never going to change. The game was created in this way, so may as well accept it. I cant see what difference it makes as it affects everyone so noone can benefit one way or the other.

[MattOG]

@ DarkShift: Way to part-quote a post to make your point

Can I do that?

If I had to pay a resource cost (like every other card in my deck) to play my hero I would 100% agree with that argument.

1. To use the ability you have to pay shadow energy.
2. Shadow Energy is a resource.
3. By your own admission, you agree 100% with my argument.

Game.
Set.
Match.






(btw, this is off-the-cuff, don't take it personally).

[Seth]

I would just like to throw in my 2 cents here: The hero should not count as part of the 40 cards, because it is never a part of the "library" or "draw deck" that you place on the table at the start of the match.

I would like to enter into evidence a great example: Lord of the Rings TCG. In that game, every deck started with a Frodo, One Ring, and 4cc worth of starting companions. At the start of the game, a player puts out his copy of Frodo and his copy of the One Ring, then searches his draw deck for 4cc worth of additional companions and places them on the table. In LOTR TCG, the starting companions are a part of the deck count, but Frodo and the One Ring are not. The reason for this is that Frodo and One Ring are never placed in the deck. The starting companions, however, ARE placed in the deck, and I may very well choose in one match to start with Aragorn, but then in the very next match of the tournament I can start with Legolas + Sam instead. My Frodo and One ring, however, do not change.

The heroes are like Frodo/One Ring. They are not and can never be a part of my Draw Deck, and therefore should not contribute to its size. If I could put multiple heroes in my deck and choose at the start of the match which one I wanted to play, I would argue in the other direction.

Heroes are counted because of how the deck editor is coded in Shadow Era. I doubt they will change it, but I do think the new deck minimum should be made 41 so that you will have an actual 40-card minimum.

[arebelspy]

LOTR Example about ring/frodo not counting

Hmm.. So you quote some anecdotal evidence by one company (Decipher). I'll go ahead and use the SAME company, and show the opposite

And in Star Wars CCG, in the Special Edition expansion (1999) they introduced objectives. They started on the table, and NEVER went in your deck.

Yet they DID count in your 60 card limit. (Ditto with Starting Effects, introduced in Reflections III in 2001, which added "Shields" as a type of sideboard.)

Therefore a card that starts on table and never goes in your deck SHOULD count towards part of your limit.

Every single card game is different. LOTR did it one way. SWCCG did it another. Shadow Era does it another. Shadow Era's way is fine, as is.

And here's the bottom line:
All of this is pointless. Because of two quotes:

Kyle fuggin Poole set the standard. 30 card minimum. Hero counts as one.

This, like so many other things in SE (like fisrt strike), is never going to change. The game was created in this way, so may as well accept it. I cant see what difference it makes as it affects everyone so noone can benefit one way or the other.

[Seth]

Hmm.. So you quote some anecdotal evidence by one company (Decipher).

Yes, along with the logic behind the way it was designed, contrasting two different types of starting cards, which is what makes it relevant.

And in Star Wars CCG, in the Special Edition expansion (1999) they introduced objectives. They started on the table, and NEVER went in your deck.

Yet they DID count in your 60 card limit. (Ditto with Starting Effects, introduced in Reflections III in 2001, which added "Shields" as a type of sideboard.)

Sadly for me, I never played SWCCG. Were Objectives and Starting Effects required in every deck and in the same number in every deck?

Every single card game is different. LOTR did it one way. SWCCG did it another. Shadow Era does it another. Shadow Era's way is fine, as is.

Yes, but nothing stops anyone from having opinions that things might make more sense a different way.