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  1. #11
    Member kirkwb's Avatar
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    Thanks Kyle. I figured as much that the text is as simple as possible and that the programing takes care of the rest.

    But, this does make valuating a card before playing it in your deck or figuring out how an opponent's card works before making in game decisions a little more difficult.

    I'd suggest two things, you can add just a little more text to make it more clear or give access to a pop-up of a more detailed explanation of the power.

    Bad Wolf heals 1 damage each turn.

    would become or be expanded in a pop up to say:

    Bad Wolf heals 1 damage from himself at the start of your turn.

    I also just realized also that, "X does Y each turn," would imply each turn, not just your turn. I understand that if in your Comprehensive rules you define, "each turn," as always meaning at the start of your turn, but this will really limit your future card design potential.


    "each turn" effects could include:

    "X does Y at the end of each turn"
    "X does Y at the start of each turn"
    "X does Y at the end of your turn"
    "X does Y at the start of your turn"
    "X does Y at the start of your opponent's turn"
    "X does Y at the end of your opponent's turn"

    That model gives you all kinds of design potential. The above are in order of Power level as well if it's a positive effect. (i.e. the most powerful is each turn, yours and your opponent's, and at the end of each of those turns, so it has an effect the turn it comes into play.)

  2. #12
    Senior Member Martin JF's Avatar
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    Btw, there is plenty of space for more text. Maybe in some cases you could make the favor text much longer, maybe to Even expplain a bit og the storyline not told in the campain?

  3. #13
    Member kaboom132's Avatar
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    I agree that the "each turn" needs specification. Also, "afraid" has 1 f. Nice art, though!

  4. #14
    Member Paradox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaboom132 View Post
    I agree that the "each turn" needs specification.
    Yeah, I would agree with that. And applying "each turn" in multiple ways does leave open design space

    But no offense to Kirkwb, "Bad Wolf heals 1 damage from himself" makes me cringe. That actually confuses me, where before the card was fairly clear. Unlike "each turn", I think we can assume the Bad Wolf is the one being healed. Otherwise the card would be more much more specific, i.e. "Bad Wolf heals your hero or an ally 1 damage".

    I do see his point about "each turn" however.
    Last edited by Paradox; 07-30-2010 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Grammar
    Follow along with my Shadow Era Blog, where hopefully we'll be going through the Beta-Test together! Comments and observations welcome!

  5. #15
    Member kaboom132's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    But no offense to Kirkwb, "Bad Wolf heals 1 damage from himself" makes me cringe. That actually confuses me, where before the card was fairly clear. Unlike "each turn", I think we can assume the Bad Wolf is the one being healed. Otherwise the card would be more much more specific, i.e. "Bad Wolf heals your hero or an ally 1 damage".
    Maybe something like, "At the beginning of your turn, remove 1 damage from Bad Wolf"? I think that's good because it's really specific and doesn't "make you cringe".

  6. #16
    Member Paradox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaboom132 View Post
    Maybe something like, "At the beginning of your turn, remove 1 damage from Bad Wolf"? I think that's good because it's really specific and doesn't "make you cringe".
    That's better, but I still see it as unnecessary verbiage. I just don't see the card as being all that ambiguous, though the timing of the healing could be more specific and thus opening more design options (as has been discussed).

    Kaboom, this sounds like a compromise position you're taking, and that's cool. But speaking to you specifically: when you read the card, did you have any doubt as to whether the text meant that the Bad Wolf was going to receive one hit point/life back (sometime during it's turn)?

    Don't get me wrong, I am all for clarity and the timing of the special action really should be more explicit- but I'd actually like to avoid excessive text where it's not necessary. Keep it clean, simple, and straightforward. Avoid verbal clutter. If the Bad Wolf was going to be healing someone else, the text would say that. If someone is determined to read some other meaning into the card, then the program will still follow the correct interpretation.. And they'll learn for next time. I just question if anybody is going to make that mistake anyway, because it seems straight forward to me.

    My .02 cents.
    Follow along with my Shadow Era Blog, where hopefully we'll be going through the Beta-Test together! Comments and observations welcome!

  7. #17
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    I think its fine as it is!

  8. #18
    Junior Member Riftblade's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting yet another of those "Excellent artwork" cards!

  9. #19
    Member kirkwb's Avatar
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    Stating who Bad Wolf heals is not excessive text, it's clarifying text. When you write rules and and card text you need to be as clear as possible with as few words as you need to explain how the card works.

    When the designer writes the card text he knows what it does. When the thousands of players in the game read that text you cannot assume all 1,000 will, "assume," the same things that you do. The text has to explain it as concisely as possible.

    I read Bad Wolf and with my TCG experience, I read, "Heals 1 damage," and knowing that any ally in play could have damage, my first question was, "can Bad Wolf heal 1 damage from anywhere?" My second question was, "When does he heal the damage? Can I choose to make an attack first, have him take a little damage and then he'll heal it at the end of turn?" Later on I realized, "each turn," is pretty powerful, as I get a turn and my opponent gets a turn.

    This isn't too big a deal as has been pointed out, the programing will take care of it and heal Bad Wolf on its own. But if I've never seen the card before and my opponent plays it and I read it as I explained above I can not valuate the card correctly and I can not make my combat decisions without all of the information.

    "If the Bad Wolf was going to be healing someone else, the text would say that."

    Then what is wrong with the converse of that? If he's only going to heal himself, why can't the text say that? How am I supposed to comfortably assume that he only heals himself? The absence of information is not information; telling me that, "he doesn't say he heals someone else," doesn't tell me he only heals himself.

    "If someone is determined to read some other meaning into the card..."

    I wasn't determined to do anything but understand what the card says. It says, "Heals 1 damage," the first question that popped into my head was from who? If I'm going to make a combat decision, I need to be clear on that information before I make a decision and find out I was wrong when the programing kicks in at the start of my opponent's turn.

    I'm not making this stuff up, there is a good 14-15 years worth of trading card game examples and lessons to learn from. The amazing advantage this game will have is that the text is digital and live so when it comes down to it, any errata will instantaneously update everyone's collection. You have to carry book of card errata for MTG cards that were poorly worded in the youth of the genre. When they wrote the first cards, they assumed a lot at first but have learned through experience and feedback that they need to be more clear. This game has that advantage as well, it has that history to learn from.

    If you want clean text boxes, let me make another suggestion that would work amazingly better in this digital format than it does on cardboard.

    Keywords.

    When you have a common power, give it a keyword. Experienced players will learn it quickly and it makes recognizing the powers of cards almost instantaneous without having to read the same sentence on card after card. On cardboard you need to introduce the keyword gradually with it's definition often printed on the common cards that use until it's widely recognized and can be printed as a keyword in other cards. In this digital game, you can make the keyword click-able so players always have access to the full explanation of the power.

    Bad Wolf could have:

    Healing Factor: 1

    When you click on it, the definition pops up:

    "This ally heals 1 damage from itself at the start of your turn."

    Now when I see another ally that has:

    Healing Factor: 2

    I should know what that means and if I don't I only need to click on it to find out.

    I think end of turn healing is a little more powerful than beginning of turn healing because it makes my combat desisions different. I might call it:

    Combat Healing: 1

    Clicked on would be:

    "This ally heals 1 damage from itself at the end of your turn."

    A digital TCG has so may advantages to a cardboard TCG and you need to think outside the box to take advantage of all of that. You don't have to sacrifice clarity for economy as much as you do in a cardboard version.

    I think they already have taken advantage of some of the digital advantages. For example, I think from a video I saw they get around the patented "Tapping" a resource to show it has been used for the turn by simply dimming the resource.

  10. #20
    Member kirothak's Avatar
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    honestly I think is is perfectly fine the way it is, the meaning is perfectly easy to figure out.

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