Design Workbench: Heroes

[Seth]

but, the main reason i hate this... flavour of heroes was talked about. the flavour of elementalis will just be gone... a TOTALLY new hero will take her place.

I do agree with this. Some of the new rebalanced powers have either bad flavor texture or are just so different that they aren't the "same" hero any more. Majiya, Elementalis, and Baduruu all have this happening to them, and I think it's not good, especially for fans of those heroes who will feel like their hero wasn't so much rebalanced as they were taken away.

Elementalis should still be about sacrificing an ally and changing it into something else (health, cards, effects...whatever) not preserving or strengthening it.

Majiya should be more similar to Gravebone. In the original game, it was a clear flavor that Human mages focused on CA via direct damage powers and Shadow mages focused on CA via putting more cards in their hand. Majiya should not have been turned into a DD power, she should have had something like "4SE: Play target non-ally card from your graveyard without paying its resource cost" to make her still feel like her and Gravebone are two sides of the same coin in terms of flavor.

Baduruu's new power is great and strong...but where is his doppleganger flavor? Killed off, destroyed, gone forever. He should have been changed to mimic SOMETHING the opponent was doing in some way, but his new power just annihilates that flavor entirely.

Sadly, though, I missed out on the earlier discussion, and I suspect it's way too late to suggest anything else now, so we're just going to be stuck with this. It is sad, but what can you do? Long sigh, then move on, I suppose.

[Master Blakes]

I think the problem occuring here, is wrong wording.
If Calmdown wouldn't have called this whole hero-change-thing a "reballance" (it obviously isn't), but just a part of the new update there wouldn't be any issues with this. Well, thats the problem I had. I could not and still can't see, how this change should provide ballance between the hero skills... anyways, thinking about this just like about an update, change things for me a lot.

[Sisyphos]

Sadly, though, I missed out on the earlier discussion, and I suspect it's way too late to suggest anything else now, so we're just going to be stuck with this. It is sad, but what can you do? Long sigh, then move on, I suppose.

If you have a great idea that would manage to save a hero from losing his/her original flavor, i don't think it's too late to suggest it. It was frequently mentioned that the new abilities will enter the "testing phase" soon, meaning there should still be room for changes.

[Seth]

@MasterBlakes: I would still have this problem no matter what they called it, to be honest.

@Sisyphos: Does Calmdown still read this thread?

[iClipse]

@MasterBlakes: I would still have this problem no matter what they called it, to be honest.

@Sisyphos: Does Calmdown still read this thread?

Yes he does. Just not as frequent. (like 2 times a week or so)

[Liliyth]

Thanks Caitlyn. I really liked your argument <3.

Back on Elementalis, it really isn't about how strong or weak her ability is now. It simply just isn't the same.

I've played many ccgs in the past, MTG, Battletech, L5r, LotBS, VS and several more that I can't recall right now. We have blitz decks and on the other end of the spectrum, control decks in all ccgs. Some players like blitz, some control and others may like something in the middle. This is what makes a deck so personal to a player. There are already as little control themed decks in SE as it is, do we really want to remove it's existence entirely?

Note that control does not mean it takes an eternity to play against. I often win simply because I do early winny rushes + Death mage Thaddeus, Energy discharges to clear my opponent's first few waves and follow up with mind control on Minotaurs, Shadow knights or other stuff while Bloodlust is on. Mill is really just plan B.

But then even if I choose to mill from the start and it takes a long time to play against, is it because Elementalis is slow or could it really be because there are so many decks capable of ridiculous amounts of damage? Like Amber, Gwenneth, Majiya (draw and burn) such that every game is simply just big numbers, bigger numbers and even bigger numbers. And now, from the way heroes are being changed, it looks like EVERY blitz hero is going to be slower now so if this is really about time, shouldn't we be doing the opposite? This isn't Shadow Rush Hour Era right?

That said, if Elementalis needs to be changed, I'd hope she could retain some of her original defensive control flavor like sacrificing allies for regeneration. Then throw in an Elemental ability to justify the increase in SE cost. For instance, it could be something very simple like -

3SE - Sac an ally. Gain 3 health. You may discard a card. If you discarded a card, draw a card from the top of your opponent's deck.

4SE - Sac an ally. Gain 4 health. You may renew up to 3 of your used resources.

5SE - Sac an ally. Gain 3 health. Target ally is under the effect of Mind Control.

[Calmdown]

Yes he does. Just not as frequent. (like 2 times a week or so)

Not quite. I just comment less as a lot of the discussion is circular and me saying "it's balanced with the rest of the set that you havent seen yet" must get old for you guys

[Xen00b]

Not quite. I just comment less as a lot of the discussion is circular and me saying "it's balanced with the rest of the set that you havent seen yet" must get old for you guys

Haha + fucking 1

[Seth]

Not quite. I just comment less as a lot of the discussion is circular and me saying "it's balanced with the rest of the set that you havent seen yet" must get old for you guys

lol, nice. Well then let me ask you before I type up some super long post, are the current changes in JIRA absolutely the versions that are going to make it to the test server at this point, or are we still open for suggestions?

[Caitlyn0]

Not quite. I just comment less as a lot of the discussion is circular and me saying "it's balanced with the rest of the set that you havent seen yet" must get old for you guys

i just want to know what the reason behind making completely new heroes out of elementalis, baduruu and victor? you spoke of flavor at the start.

and i will beg again... PLEASE do not destroy elementalis, please please please!!!