A question for "older" players

[tk5]

I bought my first mtg pack in 93/94 on a French exchange- my friend was immediately accosted by some French dude on leaving the shop- God knows what he traded as we had never heard of the game.

Anyway I was never part of the community then so don't know about reactions to the cards- it was to pricey for a youngster.

I was curious if the amount of feedback is comparable in SE or if the age of the Internet and heritage of this kind of game has increased how vocal people are.

[Calmdown]

Well, in early days of Magic the internet was young. There was only barely discussion on the game, and it was done through bulletin boards and later newsgroups, and the number of people doing it was tiny - everyone was still on 56k modems back then almost (a lot still paying 1p/minute etc) and broadband internet was only just starting to appear. Eventually, probably somewhere around Revised, some sites started to pop up where people could submit their decks (and they were generally idiots submitting terrible crap). Tournament winning decks were rarely documented. "Netdecking" didn't really exist - the only form of 'social' deckbuilding was talking to people at tournaments. I'd say it wasn't really until maybe 1998 or so that real good websites started to appear and real discussion on a large scale started to take place.

One thing's for sure though - the feedback of 'omg this is too good nerf it' etc did not exist. In most gaming spheres, nowadays, people want everything their way and feel, to a lesser or greater extent, some sense of entitlement to having their ideas listened to. It's only really a recent phenomena, as in it's only existed since something like 2004 in the 'whining' form we know it now. And I don't say this looking down on anyone, because I do exactly the same thing. Simply, we all want the things we do in life to be the way we want them, but we don't in reality have the power to change many things and excessive complaining about, say, your workplace to your boss, will end up in you being disliked. The internet is different; you're faceless, you can complain as much as you want, be an idiot as much as you want, but at the end of the day it won't impact you massively.

Basically it's just human nature and the internet has given us a way to show it.

[MrNice]

My first experience with a CCG/TCG started around 93/94. I was fascinated by the art behind the MtG cards and bought one or two starter packs and even some booster packs (this was a huge chunk of my pocket money back then!). So I collected a few cards but never actually played the game (no one to play with and way too complicated rules for my younger sister back then )...

I gave the cards away for free to a distant friend of mine who plays MtG regularly. He said there where quite a few interessting cards in it (Brass City for example). I had no clue about it.

So the next contagt with CCG was SE and I liked it instantly.

[Gondorian]

Going off on a slight tangent here ... but I think because this game is software, and Wulven Studios appear to be using the Agile developmental methodology, having direct and regular feedback from the customer is essential. This means that they can implement changes or new features sooner and respond to feedback on those changes sooner. It should leave to very quick evolution of a decent quality product. It also lowers the risk for the company because they are not sitting on an idea for years (generating zero revenue in that time) and they can fix things up quickly to ensure the customer stays happy and keeps on playing (and hopefully buying).

Back on subject now, I got into CCGs in 1995, playing Star Wars CCG from Decipher. I later picked up LOTRTCG when it was released. The game mechanics in those two games were very elegant and worked very well. Both games suffered from Decipher steadily bringing out more and more overpowered cards and essentially running out of ideas, but they still wanted to squeeze as much money as possible out of their license to use SW/LOTR and their dedicated/addicted collectors. My reaction to the lessening quality and damage to gameplay was just to stop buying. I didn't really voice my issues with it because I don't think Decipher cared. Making money was all they cared about.

[Ringel]

Everything Calmdown says is correct, except that discussion did jump directly to internet newsgroups, whining included. The big difference, I think was that the people who created the game weren't present.

What reminded me of this was the recent complaints by Spazik on the Lore thread. That frustration about changing from a mostly generic fantasy setting to specific settings was voiced loud and clear on the internet.

[tk5]

Thank you for the detailed replies, good reading. I think in general feedback helps make a better game especially when it appears developers are taking an active interest. It is not uncommon in offline games for players to make their own adjustments to rules to enhance a game.

The beauty of something purely online is that these changes can be implemented quickly, it is a shame cards can't be due to the art work needed. I would love to see a massive influx of cards all at once so that it is not so easy to adapt to a new deck and strategy- it seems at the moment optimised decks are quickly achieved and shared (something that wouldn't be so quick offline) but unless the cards have quickly drawn stick figures on them this ain't gonna happen

[MrNice]

but unless the cards have quickly drawn stick figures on them this ain't gonna happen

I loled hard

[tk5]

it could be an option on the test server, we could test out the card interactions while waiting for the art.. I would love to see discussions about how that kilt wearing, stick wielding stickman is over powered.