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  1. #1
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    Draw engine list updated

    Hello! I changed my criteria and now I have this list:

    Victor Heartstriker
    Majiya
    Lily Rosecult
    Tainted Oracle
    Belladonna
    Shadow Knight
    Wulven Tracker
    Blood Frenzy
    Surprise Attack
    Reconnaissance
    Mugged!
    Transference
    Campfire Stories
    Honored Dead
    Here Be Monsters
    Sacrificial Lamb
    Bad Santa
    Master Smith
    Melt Down
    Ley Line Nexus
    Undying Bond
    Survivalist
    Forgiveness
    Elizabeth Winterborn
    Night Owl
    Silent Strike
    Elicit Information
    Procured and Restored
    Smoke Screen
    Blood Moon
    Zantonite
    Treasured Heirloom
    Bloodthirsty
    Nathanias, People's Champion
    Falseblood Cultist
    Pack an Extra
    Hunter's Gambit
    Backstab
    Anarchic Looting
    Wulven Rally
    Stardust Extractor
    Road Less Traveled
    Glimmer of Hope
    All Hope is Lost
    Overwhelm
    Confluence of Fate
    Vigilant Wisp
    General of Unaxio
    Twilight Luminary
    Wulven Traitor
    Aldmor Artisan
    Aldmor Scout
    Aldmor Scavenger
    War Cry
    Braxnorian Weaponsmith
    Krugal Trapper
    Hunting Party
    Zailen Scholar
    Vera, High Priestess
    Rabble Rouser
    Daylight Robbery
    Jace Mortlock
    Wulven Prophet
    Wulven Tinker
    Replicate
    Spirit of Devotion
    Unyielding Light
    Surging Darkness
    Spontaneous Growth
    Rest for the Weary
    Winged Redeemer
    Dark Riding Hood
    Tome of Knowledge
    Ill-Gotten Gains
    Bazaar
    Dimension Ripper
    Wizent's Staff
    Rolling Boulders
    Antimatter
    Aldmor Conduit
    Grundler's Double
    Fan of Blades
    Amulet of Conjuring
    Anmor's Elixir
    Glass Chalice of Knowing
    Hit List
    Twilight Eidolon
    Scriptures of the Righteous
    Tombstone Beacon
    Loom of Fate
    Crystal Shards
    Looter's Baton
    Chaos Engine
    Black Market
    Scriptures of the Departed
    Wrath of the Forest
    Gravedigger's Cloak
    Cobraskin Wraps
    Twice Enchanted Robe
    Pride of the Mountain
    Loest's Burden
    Gold-Laced Shield
    Flameforged Gauntlets
    Lorhon: Twilight Encampment
    Anmor: Garina Road
    The Wilds: Trading Port
    Racksul: Warped Desert
    Yahari: Valley of Doom
    Ravenscrest: Valley of Secrets
    Shold: Tempest Gorge
    Oldros: Infested Swampland
    Rankett: Proving Grounds

    I still considered draw engines those that let you draw a card even if you remove a card from play. is that correct?

    Edit: 11/8 the list changed. It now includes Zailen Scholar, Black Market and Chaos Engine.
    Last edited by KingLoui; 11-09-2020 at 05:15 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Nijjis's Avatar
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    I would categorize this as a list of cards that provide card advantage There are several distinctions to be made...

    Cantrip If a card has the effect of adding one and only one card to your hand it meets the broadest of criteria. Itís called a cantrip You replaced the card that was in your hand and you are at card parity. Net neutral, your hand has neither gained or lost a card from playing a card.

    Card Advantage. Beyond that we have a card that results in your hand containing more cards than it did previously. This is Card Advantage Not to be confused with card draw which itís often erroneously referred to. These cards can come from anywhere, a graveyard your opponents hand, your deck, an ally off the opponents board, etc. getting card advantage by pulling from grave etc I would call these a pseudo form of card draw or pseudo draw


    Only when you draw a card from your deck does a card get the characterization of card draw

    Card draw There is an important distinction because a huge part of card games is percentages and probabilities. If you have 3 tidal waves left in your deck and only a tidal wave can save you, you need a card draw (from your deck) card advantage or pseudo draw might not have anything to offer you. Card draw is rigid and predictable you can calculate your odds for finding an out.
    Last edited by Nijjis; 11-10-2020 at 02:11 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Nijjis's Avatar
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    So a draw engine from my understanding tends to refer to either an item (mostly artifacts with some exceptions.. example wizent staff is a weapon but I would consider it an engine) or an attachment. These cards will typically stick around indefinitely, until they are removed; or in wizent staff’s case, they are removed / run out of durability.

    The two main criteria are: It’s going to be in play after you finish your turn (You can equate engine with permanence.. so abilities like bad Santa are not engines) and it’s likely going to draw you cards on a multiple of turns. Some might consider a support ability like blood moon an engine.. I would not. A true engine, to me, is a card you can play one of, have it possibly stick the entire game, and continuously draw you cards. So as i have defined it, you also would not consider engines.. any items that require you to spend durability to draw. Such as loom of fate. These are too limited or finite. Engines = potentially infinite.

    Finally.. allies IMO don’t belong in the category of engine.. because they are too fragile. Every deck has a way to deal with allies, usually many ways.. hell allies are a form of removal for other allies. Not every deck has many (and some don’t have any) ways of dealing with artifacts or attachments
    Last edited by Nijjis; 11-10-2020 at 02:22 AM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Nijjis's Avatar
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    There are not that many engines in shadow era. Historically they were usually the preeminent or strongest form of card draw. Upon shadow eras release options were limited both in forms of good card draw / engines, but equally important, and even more limited, were engine removals. Some classes were without any answers.. or none that were palatable. Overtime the balance of power has kind of shifted away from engines I would say..engines are often slow and expensive (think anti-matter) generally you can look at them as an investment. In the past they were a very safe investment. Nearly any and every hero / deck that had access to a good engine would be playing them. Today that’s not always the case.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Nijjis's Avatar
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    Engines would be:

    Blood frenzy
    Tome of knowledge
    I’ll gotten gains
    Bazaar
    Wraith of the forest
    Wizents staff
    Survivalist
    Elicit information
    Anti matter
    Aldmor conduit
    Arguably grundlers double, but it’s much too narrow and short lived IMO not reliable enough.
    Amulet of conjuring
    Glass chalice of knowing
    Twilight eidolon again could be considered an engine in theory but virtually never functions as one in practice.. so i would say no
    Confluence of fate
    Chaos engine
    Black market
    Scriptures of the departed is a tough one.. it requires you to use durability to draw, and will gain durability whenever a friendly twilight ally dies.. so both either infinite or finite. usually you will end up cashing in the last 2 durability if desperate or looking for lethal. by my earlier definition thats makes it not an engine. Despite that im going to have to say engine. ��*♂️

    Distortion harness also tricky. It can function like an engine, but to a very limited degree.. if you just need a card to sacrifice next turn for example, it will do the job.. but it’s not truly an engine.

    Wouldn’t be surprised if i passed over some.. pride of the mountain? but I think that’s most of them

  6. #6
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    Ok, I think I get it. Putting it that way, instead of changing the criteria, I would change the way I call it. Because, for my pourpuse, now I know I need "card advantage" instead of draw engines. I will take change the title of the post.

    Thanks a lot!

  7. #7
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    Got it, thanks.

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