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  1. #1
    Senior Member Veles's Avatar
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    Post WC Balance Discussion

    Design Team has been listening closely to community feedback regarding game balance since release of new Lost Lands cards and is preparing the next balance patch. However, with this year's competitive season behind, World Championship being the crown of competitive play in Shadow Era, we should have another look at overall balance in both ladder and tournament play. Did recent big tournaments change your opinion on some cards or strengthen it further? Did meta settle around new powerful cards or do these cards warp the meta too much?

    To keep discussion focused, I recommend you to use the following format: name the card you think needs changing, why you think it needs changing, and what change would you like to see. You can also provide in what way you believe proposed change would impact the game.

    We are looking forward to your feedback!

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    Check out this thread for some awesome articles and guides.

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    ok let's start, I don't have a big list so here goes:-

    1. Javelin - Make a class restriction on it.
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    Javelin: 1se activation
    Eye of the Dark Forest: 1se activation, lose 1 durability

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    Senior Member Arcadius's Avatar
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    Share thoughts with scout about class restriction of javelin .. it would be definitely a shame to kill again heroes like Logan and Rothem .. although it made Ter pretty op .

    About eye I don't have anything to say .. for me it's normal card without need for nerf ..

    If this is javelin / eye meta well I can say I'm enjoying it . At least it's not boring . Game is currently pretty well balanced imo . Definitely I wouldn't like to be again in priest meta .
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    There should be some buffs for the new 6cc allies like axiom and jace.

    I should also add that a lot of new cards suck
    Last edited by Scout; 12-21-2018 at 04:08 PM.
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    Gemstone Javelin: This card has defined the competitive scene during this WC season. Every deck is either playing it or trying to beat it. It is not class or faction restricted, so people are able to put it in pretty much every deck. Helm also being available to every class makes it easy to spam for any hero. I think that it needs to be class restricted (warrior and elemental?) and should be changed so that it is destroyed after using the ability.

    Eye of the Dark Forrest: This card provides Wulven heroes extremely powerful board clearing and comeback ability. Most decks that are reliant on allies have a really hard time with these decks, because even if they manage to take the board, it is easily lost again with eye and Crusher. I think a possible change could be to give a single ally haste and ambush until end of turn. This means that there are ways to counter it, as well as making it worse with smaller allies. I think that a se cost would be too much at this point and potentially could kill the card.

    Zailen Scholar: If the two other cards I mentioned are nerfed, then we will see attach priest as the top deck once again. The last nerf to scholar had very little impact on its power, because it doesn’t affect the optimal play line of the deck. To me, it is absurd to attach draw to a 2cc ally, and this is draw on the same level as Bloodfrenzy. It might be reasonable if that was the only ability the ally had, but the resource renewal gives that chance for the best starts in the game. I think that it needs to lose one of these abilities, or both of them need to be nerfed.

    Other possible issues could be Crusher, Adventist, and Weaponsmith, but I think that these other changes should be tried first before nerfing too much.

    The elemental cards still seem very lackluster. I would like to see some changes to them to make them a bit better. I know that Zal got into the top 4, but I think that has more to do with Kiki being a great player and it being a decent meta call than it being a great deck.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member starval's Avatar
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    NERFS

    Zalien Scholar - "When you end your turn while Zalien Scholar has an attachment, draw a card."
    * This is the only ability it should have. So remove the adjacent part and remove the res renewal.

    Eye of the Dark Forest - I agree about having it give a single ally haste and ambush.

    Javelin - I agree about having it class restricted and having it destroyed as soon as ability is activated rather than end of turn. The card itself doesn't need to be nerfed. Fits well for ravager theme so perhaps warrior/hunter.

    BUFFS

    Caged Savage - Change HP from 6 to 4. And change "attack less than" from 3 to 1.
    * It's a cool card but doesn't fall in-line with other similar 1cc allies that are much easier to empower.

    MEEK - balance allies as much as possible so they don't need Meek. Feels bad when you can't attack a hero.
    * Example - Unaxio Squire. Remove Meek. Change stats from 0/4 to 1/3. Change ability to target "other" friendly ally.
    * Example - Kiruth Devotee. Change stats from 1/4 to 1/3.
    * Example - Vigilant Wisp. Change stats from 1/4 to 1/3.

    Sword Gobbler - Change attack from 1 to 2. Change passive from "+2 attack" to "+1 attack".
    * Needs a bit more early presence.

    Child of Aldmor - Change active to "At the end of your turn, Child of Aldmor is shuffled into its owner's deck."
    * Small buff but see no reason why it can't get its ping off first.

    Aldmor Sentry - Change ability to "1se: Target non-Aldmor ally is disabled for 1 turn."
    * It's a nice disable ability but 2se is too much of an investment.

    Aldmor Sharpshooter - Change HP from 5 to 6.
    * Not sure why it has 5hp. It's ability isn't strong enough to warrant that.

    Aldmor Vanquisher - Change summon damage from 1 to 2.
    * Needs a bit stronger of a punch when he's summoned.

    War Cry - Change to "Duration 4. At the end of your turn, draw a card if your hero dealt combat damage on your turn."
    * It's difficult to get to work currently but would rather have it be more consistent rather than too powerful with multiple card draws

    Flurry of Blows - Change to "Up to 2 different target allies take 2 damage (or 3 damage if you control a weapon or armor)."
    * It's very weak right now and not worth using with the stipulations. Needs more reliable damage

    Carnage - Change from "gain +1 base attack" to "gain +1 base attack and +1 durability"
    * The weapon you have needs to last a bit longer to make this worth the investment

    Living Ice Wall - Change from "frozen for 2 turns" to "frozen for 1 turn"
    * The temporary protector is nice but needs to come online sooner

    Lilyt - Change ability cost from 3 to 2
    * It's just too expensive to use

    Double Back - Change from "Target Trap" to "Target other Hunter card"
    * Too inconsistent in it's current form but don't want to target another Double Back for looping

    Grave Robber - Change stats from 1/4 to 2/3
    * Needs to be more threatening t2 ally

    Black Market - Change cost from 4 to 3
    * paying 4 to draw from your opponents decks feel way too costly

    Jace Mortlock - Change HP from 6 to 7
    * Needs to be a bit beefier

    Accelerate - Reduce cost from 3 to 2. Change from "All players reveal the top 2 cards of their deck and place them on their resource pile" to "Reveal the top card of your deck and place it on your resource pile"
    * Having it accelerate both players makes it no better than bazaar as a class card. It should be one-sided.

    Axio - Change cost from 2 to 1.
    * Paying 2 is too much to get a 1/1

    Unyielding Light - Change to "Gain 1 shadow energy for each Human ally you control."
    * Humans have been looking for a type of Shadow Font for a while now. This can be that card.

    Surging Darkness - Change to "Target friendly hero heals 1 damage for each Shadow ally you control."
    * Shadow have been lacking in the sustainability department and they already have Font so there's no need for another se accelerator.

    Amethyst Reverle - Change to "1se: Renew 2 used sources."
    * Could be a nice armor, esp for aldmor but the 2se cost really limits it

    Spiked Shield - Change durability of armor and effect from 3 to 4.
    * Cool concept but for 4cc should match up with other 4cc weapons

    Distortion Harness - Change summoning cost from 3 to 2.
    * Limited in what it does. doesn't need to cost 3 to summon

    Kite of Divine Might - Change summon cost from 5 to 4. Change activation cost from 2se to 1se. Change base attack requirement from 1 to 2.
    * It's very underpowered across the board

    Voidhammer - Change durability from 3 to 4.
    * Needs more longevity

    Life-infusing Scepter - Change summon cost from 5 to 3. Change durability from 4 to 2. Change stat buff from +2/+4 to +1/+1.
    * Cool card idea but little to no viability in its current form

    The Wilds: Trading Port - Change controller activation from 0se to 1se. Change "artifact with cost 4" to "artifact with cost 3." Change opposing cost from 4se to 3se.
    * I like how useful it was at the 3cc requirement before but the effect can't be free with the strength of it

    Tisay: Volcanic Springs - Change both sides "negative effects" to "negative effects and enemy attachments"
    * It can stand to have a bit more use

    Kiruth: Thaddeus' Vault - Change activation from 0se to 1se. Change "renew 3 resources" to "renew 3 resources and draw a card"
    * Needs a bit more punch


    That's my summary of Lost Lands cards right now. Obviously a lot more buffs than nerfs here because there are many underperforming cards.
    Last edited by starval; 12-21-2018 at 06:06 PM.
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  8. #8
    DP Visionary tman507's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scout
    1. Javelin - Make a class restriction on it.
    Please no. Neutral status makes it what it is. A restriction would make it boring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote Trickster
    Javelin: 1se activation
    If anything should be done with Javelin, definitely something like this over a class restriction.
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    Sorceror of Endia - Health increased to 7HP (from 6HP).

    Growing Bog-dweller - Ability changed to "0: Target other friendly Homunculus ally is killed and Growing Bog-dweller gains +3 attack and +3 health." (from "0: Target other friendly ally is killed and Growing Bog-dweller gains +2 attack and +2 health.").

    Demetreyo, Twilight Extremist - Health increased to 3HP (from 2HP).

    Avenger of the Fallen - Ability changed to "Avenger of the Fallen has +1 attack on your turn. While there are at least 3 Templar allies in your graveyard, Avenger of the Fallen has +3 attack and has haste." (from "Avenger of the Fallen has +1 attack on your turn. While there are at least 3 Templar allies in your graveyard, Avenger of the Fallen has +3 attack.").

    Plightbred Runt - Ability changed to "When Plightbred Runt is discarded from anywhere, all friendly Homunculus allies gain +2 health and +1 base attack." (from "When Plightbred Runt is discarded from anywhere, all friendly allies gain +1 health and all friendly Homunculus allies gain +1 base attack.").

    Rapacious Vermin - Ability changed to "Sustain: 1HP. 1SE: If a player controls at least 3 items and/or abilities, target and destroy one of them." (from "Ability changed to Sustain: 1HP. 2: If a player controls at least 3 items and/or abilities, target and destroy one of them.").

    Grimjaw Hydra - Health increased to 7HP (from 6HP).

    Slingblade Demon - Health reduced to 2HP (from 3HP). Ability changed to "When Slingblade Demon is summoned, you may return target other friendly ally to its owner's hand to renew 3 resources." (from "When Slingblade Demon is summoned, you may return target other friendly ally to its owner's hand to renew 2 resources.").

    Thriss Demolitionist - Attack increased to 3 (from 2).

    Stoneskin - Ability changed to "Attach to target friendly ally. All damage to that ally is reduced by 2. When that ally is targeted by an ability, that ability has no effect and Stoneskin is destroyed." (from "Attach to target friendly ally. All damage to that ally is reduced by 1. When that ally is targeted by an ability, that ability has no effect and Stoneskin is destroyed.").

    Urigon's Fang - Casting cost reduced to 2cc (from 3cc). Ability changed to "Allies damaged by your hero in combat are frozen for 1 turn. 1SE: Target opposing ally takes 1 ice damage and is frozen for 1 turn." (from "Allies damaged by your hero in combat are frozen for 1 turn. 2SE: Target opposing ally takes 1 ice damage and is frozen for 1 turn.").

    Anmor's Elixir - Casting cost reduced to 1cc (from 2cc).

    Righteous Strike - Casting cost reduced to 2cc (from 3cc).

    Vozitian Trader - Ability changed to "When you summon an item, Vozitian Trader gains +1 base attack and +1 health." (from "When you summon an item, Vozitian Trader gains +1 base attack.").

    Final Flourish - Ability changed to "Target friendly ally is killed: target opposing ally takes 4 damage." (from "Target friendly ally is killed: target opposing ally takes 3 damage.").

    Despair - Casting cost reduced to 1cc (from 2cc).

    Tombstone Beacon - Ability changed to "1D: If you summoned an Undead ally this turn, 2 of your resources are renewed and you draw a card." (from "1D: If you summoned an Undead ally this turn, 1 of your resources is renewed and you draw a card.").

    Cleric's Mantle - Casting cost reduced to 2cc (from 3cc). Durability increased to 5D (from 4D).

    Shock Conductor - Armour is increased to 2 (from 1).

    Aural Battery - Armour is increased to 2 (from 1).

    Frying Pan - Casting cost is reduced to 0cc (from 1cc). Ability changed to "When your hero kills an ally in combat, your hero heals 2 damage." (from "When your hero kills an ally in combat, your hero heals 1 damage.").

    Wooden Spear - Ability changed to "While Wooden Spear has exactly 1 durability, it has +2 attack." (from "While Wooden Spear has exactly 1 durability, it has +1 attack.").

    Darkforged Knife - Ability changed to "When Darkforged Knife deals combat damage and an ability activated with shadow energy has been used that turn, each opponent discards 3 cards from their deck and your hero gains 1 shadow energy." (from "When Darkforged Knife deals combat damage and an ability activated with shadow energy has been used that turn, each opponent discards 2 cards from their deck.").

    Chains of Torment - Ability changed to "When an opposing ally is killed, Chains of Torment gains +2 base attack." (from "When an opposing ally is killed, Chains of Torment gains +1 base attack.").

    Twilight Shepherdess - Ability changed to "0: Target other friendly ally with X cost gains Twilight alignment: X used resources are renewed and that friendly ally is killed at the end of your turn." (from "1: Target other friendly ally with X cost gains Twilight alignment: X used resources are renewed and that friendly ally is killed at the end of your turn.").

    Sword Gobbler - Health increased to 4HP (from 3HP).

    Hellfire Besieger - Ability changed to "1: Target item or ability you control is destroyed: target opposing hero or ally takes 4 fire damage. All opposing heroes and allies are set ablaze." (from "1: Target item or ability you control is destroyed: target opposing hero or ally takes 4 fire damage.").

    Kiruth Devotee - Ability changed to "Meek (this ally can't attack heroes). 2: When target other ally is killed, it is returned to play under your control with no abilities and Undead alignment." (from "Meek (this ally can't attack heroes). 3: When target other ally is killed, it is returned to play under your control with no abilities and Undead alignment.").

    Aldmor Sharpshooter - Health increased to 6HP (from 5HP). Ability changed to "While there is an undamaged opposing ally, Aldmor Sharpshooter's ability does not exhaust. 0: Up to 2 different target non-Aldmor allies take 1 damage." (from "While there is an undamaged opposing ally, Aldmor Sharpshooter's ability does not exhaust. 1SE: Up to 2 different target non-Aldmor allies take 1 damage.").

    Chaos Engine - Ability changed to "When an item or support ability is targeted and destroyed on your turn, draw a card." (from "When an item or support ability is targeted and destroyed on your turn, your hero gains +1 shadow energy and you draw a card.").

    Scriptures of the Departed - Durability reduced to 1D (from 2D). Ability changed to "When a friendly Twilight ally is killed, Scriptures of the Departed gains +1 durability. 1D: Draw a card." (from "When a friendly Twilight ally is killed, Scriptures of the Departed gains +1 durability. 2D: Draw a card.").

    Battle Charge - Casting cost reduced to 1cc (from 2cc). Ability changed to "Duration 3. 0: Weapons you control have +2 attack while in combat with allies until the end of the turn." (from "Duration 3. 0: Your hero takes 1 damage, and your weapons have +2 attack while in combat with allies until the end of the turn.").

    Flurry of Blows - Ability changed to "Up to 4 different target heroes and allies take 1 damage (or 2 damage if you control a weapon or armor)." (from "Up to 3 different target allies take 1 damage (or 2 damage if you control a weapon or armor).").

    Subdue - Ability changed to "Attach to target opposing ally. That ally has -2 attack. Allies adjacent to that ally have -1 attack." (from "Attach to target opposing ally. That ally has Sustain 1HP and -2 attack. Allies adjacent to that ally have -1 attack.").

    Isadora Stormrage - Ability changed to "When you summon an ability, Isadora is readied (up to twice per turn). When Isadora attacks an ally on your turn, ability damage to opposing allies is increased by 1 until the end of the turn. 1: Target opposing hero or ally takes 2 electrical damage." (from "When you summon an ability, Isadora is readied. When Isadora attacks an ally on your turn, ability damage to opposing allies is increased by 1 until the end of the turn. 1: Target opposing hero or ally takes 2 electrical damage.").

    Lilyt of Orem - Attack increased to 4 (from 3). Health increased to 10HP from (9HP).

    Rain of Arrows - Ability changed to "If no friendly allies have attacked this turn, all opposing allies take X damage, where X is the number of Hunter allies you control. All friendly Hunter allies gain +1 Health. All friendly allies are exhausted." (from "If no friendly allies have attacked this turn, all opposing allies take X damage, where X is the number of Hunter allies you control. Exhaust all friendly allies.").

    Blessed Charge - Ability changed to "Attach to target friendly ally. That ally has +1 attack. When Blessed Charge is targeted and destroyed, your hero gains +2 shadow energy and all opposing allies take 2 arcane damage." (from "Attach to target friendly ally. That ally has +1 attack. When Blessed Charge is targeted and destroyed, your hero gains +1 shadow energy and all opposing allies take 2 arcane damage.").

    Master of Disguise - Ability changed to "Ambush. When Master of Disguise is discarded from anywhere, the bottom Rogue ally in your graveyard is shuffled into your deck and you draw 2 cards." (from "Ambush. When Master of Disguise is discarded from anywhere, the bottom Rogue ally in your graveyard is shuffled into your deck and you draw a card.").

    Disguise Kit - Durability increased to 3D (from 2D). Ability changed to "1D: Target ally in your hand is discarded: each opponent discards a card from their hand at random. The top card of target opponents graveyard is added to your hand." (from "1D: Target ally in your hand is discarded: each opponent discards a card from their hand at random.").

    Wulven Prophet - Attack increased to 2 (from 1). Health reduced to 2HP (from 4HP). Ability changed to "When Wulven Prophet is summoned, you may seek an attachment." (from "When Wulven Prophet is summoned, you may seek an attachment and place it on top of your deck.").

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by starval View Post
    Zalien Scholar - "When you end your turn while Zalien Scholar has an attachment, draw a card."
    * This is the only ability it should have. So remove the adjacent part and remove the res renewal.
    I guess...

    Quote Originally Posted by starval View Post
    Eye of the Dark Forest - I agree about having it give a single ally haste and ambush.
    Okay...

    Quote Originally Posted by starval View Post
    Javelin - I agree about having it class restricted and having it destroyed as soon as ability is activated rather than end of turn. The card itself doesn't need to be nerfed. Fits well for ravager theme so perhaps warrior/hunter.
    Destroyed upon activation/Exhaust Hero I can get behind. I'm undecided on whether this should be class restricted.

    Quote Originally Posted by starval View Post
    Child of Aldmor - Change active to "At the end of your turn, Child of Aldmor is shuffled into its owner's deck."
    * Small buff but see no reason why it can't get its ping off first.
    Sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by starval View Post
    Double Back - Change from "Target Trap" to "Target other Hunter card"
    * Too inconsistent in it's current form but don't want to target another Double Back for looping
    Would put it more in line with Pack an Extra.

    Quote Originally Posted by starval View Post
    Jace Mortlock - Change HP from 6 to 7
    * Needs to be a bit beefier
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by starval View Post
    Axio - Change cost from 2 to 1.
    * Paying 2 is too much to get a 1/1

    Spiked Shield - Change durability of armor and effect from 3 to 4.
    * Cool concept but for 4cc should match up with other 4cc weapons
    Would give them (more of) a reason to be ran but I don't think they should be changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by starval View Post
    Distortion Harness - Change summoning cost from 3 to 2.
    * Limited in what it does. doesn't need to cost 3 to summon
    4HP for 2cc, no thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by starval View Post
    Kite of Divine Might - Change summon cost from 5 to 4. Change activation cost from 2se to 1se. Change base attack requirement from 1 to 2.
    * It's very underpowered across the board
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by starval View Post
    Voidhammer - Change durability from 3 to 4.
    * Needs more longevity
    I am for and against this one. I'm the only one that would use it in the 'against' fashion though :P (Which is as a Shold answer in Garina Warriors.)

    Quote Originally Posted by starval View Post
    Life-infusing Scepter - Change summon cost from 5 to 3. Change durability from 4 to 2. Change stat buff from +2/+4 to +1/+1.
    * Cool card idea but little to no viability in its current form
    I think it's better how it is.



    All of your other suggestions were poorly thought out imo.
    Last edited by VanillaTwilight; 12-22-2018 at 08:06 AM.

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