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Thread: Black Market

  1. #1
    Junior Member Piercing Serenity's Avatar
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    Black Market

    Hey all,

    I think that Black Market provides a bit too much utility for its cost, specifically within the rogue archetype. I think that the card's design and execution are fine, and that it is a nice, thematic expansion for rouges. But it *feels* (and this is the operative word here) to me that expands an already diverse set of win conditions that rouges have. My understanding is that rouges are a more control-oriented class - Stop Theif!, Shriek of Vengence, Ararchic Pillaging, and other similar cards help rouges destroy items and support. Assasinate, Covert Operative, and Coersion help rouges maintain board control, and, to a lesser degree, abilities like Serena's help maintain tempo control through hand destruction and/or theft.

    The issue that I see with the current iteration of Black Market is that it is particularly synergistic with all of these other win conditions, potentially going over the "balancing line". The main drawback to Black Market is it's activation cost, which seems insufficiently low for an archetype that can boost its own resources through item destruction. In addition, it feeds back into itself very well - stealing a useless card is prime sacrifice material, potentially crippling for your opponent (the degree of this increases as the game goes on), and reducing the drawback of using the card in the first place. On top of that, the secondary ability of black market allows rouges to generate their own offensive board control (verses the compartively defensive denial of their opponent's board presence).

    I don't think that Black Market is broken so much as I think that it is too synergistic with the other win conditions that rouges have at their disposal. If Black Market stays as is, then I think other classes should have new cards drafted that are equally beneficial to that hero's playstyle (Gemstone Javelin is a good example for Ter).

  2. #2
    Community Manager SEF Mango's Avatar
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    Yoyo!

    Thanks for your input. However, I do disagree with your “feeling” on this card. Tbh, a cost of 4 resources to steal a card is a huge commitment. Especially for a hero like Serena who tends to have a slow setup to the game. It likely is only a 2x copy to include in your deck. Also, I do think it would only be used in Serena. At least, I have not seen it in any other competitive build.

    I don’t see this card becoming an issue but you never know. If it does, we will credit you as havin a great eye for potential issues! Maybe I’ll even send you some Shadow crystals.

    :P
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEF Mango View Post
    Tbh, a cost of 4 resources to steal a card is a huge commitment. Especially for a hero like Serena who tends to have a slow setup to the game. It likely is only a 2x copy to include in your deck. Also, I do think it would only be used in Serena. At least, I have not seen it in any other competitive build.
    I respectfully disagree! I believe this card is a 4 of, and should be in every rogue deck.

    I predict we'll see rogues rampant at worlds because of this card!

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    I've been playing mostly rogue and feel BM is fine. It is worthless early game, of limited use in the mid game and outstanding in the mid-late stages. It is also excellent tech against decks that have a mill condition of some kind (Some Skervox, Victor, Priest, and Praxix build). It can be very useful against mages in the mid game when they switch to burn (and IGG won't be drawing any cards). It is also good against other rogues for the early ST!/IGG wars. Finally it helps you draw against decks with no allies where IGG becomes a sub-par draw engine.

    In any card game, having your own cards used against you is something people tend to find annoying and offensive which tends to make people feel it is more unfair and pwerful than it actually is (priest in hearthstone being an obvious example of common complaints even at times when the class was weak). However, the cards in my deack are more powerful on average to me than the cards in your deck because they synergise with the rest of the deck/hero. This is also why it is better against rogues than warriors for example.

    It is a very good card and I prefer it to the other two backup draw options (TO and hit list) for the reasons above and because it is the gift that keeps giving rather than being a one off burst draw.
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  5. #5
    DP Visionary Shadow Mann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kross View Post
    I respectfully disagree! I believe this card is a 4 of, and should be in every rogue deck.

    I predict we'll see rogues rampant at worlds because of this card!
    I disagree. I run 80+hero and am still debating keeping 1x copy...I certainly wouldn't use more copies unless using Serena.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Mann View Post
    I disagree. I run 80+hero and am still debating keeping 1x copy...I certainly wouldn't use more copies unless using Serena.
    Why do you disagree?

    But I do think your deck might be a special case, because 80 card garth is such a tool boxy control deck that it probably does well against most if not all heroes, when piloted correctly.

    I've never tried it myself, though

  7. #7
    DP Visionary Shadow Mann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kross View Post
    Why do you disagree?

    But I do think your deck might be a special case, because 80 card garth is such a tool boxy control deck that it probably does well against most if not all heroes, when piloted correctly.

    I've never tried it myself, though
    I disagree, because I don't want it in hand early and I don't want to draw it if I already have it in play. 1x copy is good enough Imo, unless building a complete deck around it.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Mann View Post
    I don't want it in hand early
    Why not?

  9. #9
    DP Visionary Shadow Mann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kross View Post
    Why not?
    It doesn't help early game so ideally I'd play it on T6 or later. The only time I was glad to play it on T2 was going 2nd vs a Lance who played an Agent Rex on his T2. Nice bait for him to steal, but it gave me board and it meant his Rex couldn't steal my IGG.
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  10. #10
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    When a card splits opinion as much as this, it's usually a sign that the Design Team did a good job on it. Well done to them!

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