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  1. #51
    Senior Member starval's Avatar
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    if it was ONLY the VE combo for 6cc, i don't think that's bad. i think its the fact that garina is making all of the other fatties in the deck cheaper is what's the back breaker. so if VE were 3cc each and you removed garina altogether, it's probably fine.
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  2. #52
    Cerddorion
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    Wait, so now the answer is to ban another card? Just make it only affect 5cc or greater allies.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerddorion View Post
    Wait, so now the answer is to ban another card? Just make it only affect 5cc or greater allies.
    On balance making Garina affect 5cc or higher allies (both for seek and to reduce cost) is probably the best suggestion so far.

    It would necessitate a change in the current decks but I'd be concerned that all it would do is weight them more heavily towards early control.

    Having played vergon priests the fact is that a good proportion of the time your strategy ends up being to just run your oppononent out if resources until they eventually can't deal with your fatties or vergon under KP.

    Not a fun way to win and pretty npe for the other player- feels a little like playing against millstalker. Generally I don't see this as good for the game. A Garina need would make the combo more expensive and harder to pull off which may be enough to give other decks a decent chance or may just make the combo happen later. Chalice essentially guarantees that you'll get the two combo pieces consistently anyway.

  4. #54
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    The strategy of the deck is annoying but all control is. It's not at all a stall deck tho imo. Garina being changed to where it can't seek or reduce their cost should be enough to make the deck less consistent but still playable.
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  5. #55
    Community Manager SEF Mango's Avatar
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    I will say again that I think the seek should be gone altogether. The ability to seek is incredibly strong and fairly balanced in all other cards.

    Vigilant Wisp can only seek Homunc
    Aldmor Scout can only seem Homunc
    Krugal Trapper can only seek traps
    General of Unaxio can only seek attachments not able to target heroes
    Braxnorian Weaponsmith can only seek 4 or less cost weapon

    The two allies that can seek fatties are restricted to class. Garina is not. This is huge since Human class has access to great 5+ cost allies.

    On top of that, Garina has no resource cost. Just the 2SE. Of course, that is the universal cost for seek however, it is insane value to be able and seek things like Nathanias, Kion, Viska etc.

    The fatty list has been getting better and better. Soon, this seek ability will be even better than it is now.

    I would like to see Garina changed to something like “top ally in your deck of cost 5 or greater is placed into your hand”

    Seek is an incredible ability. In Garina, it is too much value for the 2SE. It is seek that made this Vera combo broken. The resource reduction help but it was the ability to pull one of the pieces needed. If that doesn’t show you what problems could come with ability to seek fatties, I’m not sure what other warning you need.

    This location will always be a hurdle to other card interactions you have in mind along these lines without a change.
    Last edited by SEF Mango; 06-24-2018 at 01:59 AM.
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  6. #56
    Cerddorion
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    Garina wouldn't be as important to vergon if it only let you seek allies 5cc or greater. Besides, this trend towards weakening control decks lately is getting old.

  7. #57
    Chat Mod Burnout1985's Avatar
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    I do agree with you Josť, make garina to seek 5cc and more seems fair. Priests are too powerful atm
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  8. #58
    Community Manager SEF Mango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerddorion View Post
    Garina wouldn't be as important to vergon if it only let you seek allies 5cc or greater. Besides, this trend towards weakening control decks lately is getting old.
    I would like there to be control decks in the meta as well. I like to play control/defensive styles myself. I was an Island player in MTG. For fighting games i enjoy playing zoning characters like Dhalsim from Street Fighter.

    I actually enjoy playing Zhanna with the Vera combo. Problem is that I find it very easy to see this deck is too much. It forces you to play a fraction of the heroes available to you (weapon heros) so that you can survive the constant flow of waves and or damage from the reverse of the combo.

    Even if you just look at what you have to pay for the combo:

    Location + 6 resources + 2SE = seek ally needed - 4 Heal - 3 cards - 2 allies

    This thread is not an attack on control decks. It is concern on decks that are warping the game. Just so happens that it is a control deck.

    I think i am ok with the cards remaining as they are if Garina is changed. For the benefit that you obtain for playing those two cards, it should not be so cheap and easily accessible.
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  9. #59
    Senior Member phillipw123's Avatar
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    I think a change for Garina to apply to 5cc and more allies is a good start. I would also like to remove Ergon and Vera's ability to go to bottom of resource pile/deck. This would restrict the constant draw and heal loop during game.

  10. #60
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    Here's an alternative to consider:

    Leave Garina as it is but have the seek ability put the card on top of your deck instead of into your hand? 2SE + your next draw and you have to wait a turn to get it seems a lot more balanced.

    No more "Garina Tutor" for the answer you need right now, requires forethought and delays combos via Garina by a turn

    Thoughts?

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