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  1. #1
    Member Steedious's Avatar
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    Which is it Turncoat? (not a bug)

    Turncoat, great card from LL2 but it has me confused when I see it work. When I attach it to an opposing ally with an adjacent ally on either side damage is dealt differently between the two. The confusion comes in on my opponent's turn right after I play it. The ally to my left of the attached ally is dealt 2 damage at the start of the turn and the ally to the right is dealt 3 damage in that same turn. 3 damage makes sense if the it counts the poison damage immediately after the adjacent ally is poisoned at the start of my opponent's first turn but on the other side the ally only takes 2. The card itself isn't specific about the order of the damage so this has to be a bug. Which behavior is correct? 3 damage on the turn right it's cast or just an initial 2 and then 3 damage (2 from the attachment and 1 from poison) from then on?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Veles's Avatar
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    Was the ally taking 3 damage Layarian Knight perhaps?
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  3. #3
    Lead Developer / Designer Gondorian's Avatar
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    Which is it Turncoat?

    Hi. No, it's not a bug, but I appreciate it works in a surprising/confusing fashion due to how the timing of start of turn triggers happen. To understand the behaviour you are seeing, we need to consider Standard Resolution Order as defined by the rule book, which is there precisely to give defined order of things in cases like this.

    Sequence of events at start of turn after Turncoat has just been played:
    1) Ally closest to your hero is not poisoned yet so does nothing to itself. If it has its own start of turn triggers, it will do them.
    2) Ally with Turncoat resolves any of its own start of turn triggers and then those of its attachments, which means Turncoat: it does 2 damage to Ally on left and poisons it and then does same to Ally on the right.
    3) Ally on right is poisoned so takes 1 poison damage. If it has its own start of turn triggers, it will do them.

  4. #4
    DP Visionary tman507's Avatar
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    ^ So we would expect 3 total damage to both allies the next time around then, now that both are pre-poisoned? Very interesting ordering, but makes sense.
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  5. #5
    Lead Developer / Designer Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tman507 View Post
    ^ So we would expect 3 total damage to both allies the next time around then, now that both are pre-poisoned? Very interesting ordering, but makes sense.
    Yes. It's kind of like at the start of the turn they are sipping from a cup passed along by the hero and the Turncoat ally only poisons it after the left ally had his first sip (no poison damage) but before the guy on right (takes poison damage).


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  6. #6
    Member Steedious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    Hi. No, it's not a bug, but I appreciate it works in a surprising/confusing fashion due to how the timing of start of turn triggers happen. To understand the behaviour you are seeing, we need to consider Standard Resolution Order as defined by the rule book, which is there precisely to give defined order of things in cases like this.

    Sequence of events at start of turn after Turncoat has just been played:
    1) Ally closest to your hero is not poisoned yet so does nothing to itself. If it has its own start of turn triggers, it will do them.
    2) Ally with Turncoat resolves any of its own start of turn triggers and then those of its attachments, which means Turncoat: it does 2 damage to Ally on left and poisons it and then does same to Ally on the right.
    3) Ally on right is poisoned so takes 1 poison damage. If it has its own start of turn triggers, it will do them.
    Thank you so much. That really clears up my confusion and it's pretty interesting to apply the turn order to other cards. I think I'll give those turn order details a looking over.

    One other question. Let's say my opponent has 3 allies in play. In order from their hero they are Dirk Saber, Puwen Bloodhelm and Birgitte Skullborn. If I were to attach Turncoat to Birgitte that would mean on my opponent's first turn Puwen would take 2 damage and be poisoned, taken down to 1 health. That's a given. But on the next turn logically Puwen should die from his own poisoning and then Dirk should die from Turncoat damage. Is that correct?

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    Last edited by Steedious; 04-04-2018 at 05:51 AM.

  7. #7
    DP Visionary Shadow Mann's Avatar
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    Nice explanation!...I was confused too but completely understand now.
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