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  1. #61
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Hi all! I think we have had long enough to learn enough from this Temporary Ban List. It's clear allowing up to 4 copies of these in decks on Rated Multiplayer did not create a nice environment and we are much better off overall without them appearing at all. But, could things be even better if we allow 1 copy of them rather than none at all? I say "Let's find out!"

    I propose we consider making a Temporary RESTRICTED List for Rated Multiplayer with these same cards on it. Each of these cards currently limited to 0 copies in your Rated Multiplayer deck could now appear once in your deck. Implementing it will take about 5 minutes and communicating it would not take much longer. What do you think?

  2. #62
    Senior Member Veles's Avatar
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    Temporary list is ugly design as it goes against established core deckbuilding rules.

    Second thing is in case of Soul Reaper, most decks run 1 anyway so it is irrelevant. In case of discarding Reaper, they can use Mimic as more versatile option over multiple copies of Soul Reaper. Aside helping out discard and other forms of midrange Zaladar, which seems the main motivation for calling back ban on Soul Reaper (I don't recall anyone wanting other cards back even at 1 copy and instead asking to add more similar cards to the list like Full Moon and Holy Shield), players seem to forget there is another deck that also uses it and that is Mill Praxix. Mill Prax got pretty powerful tool recently with Accelerate. I fear that with Soul Reaper that deck will bring about more NPE than buffed discard Zaladar would bring fun.

    Instead, nerf or printing of new similar cards seems like ideal solution to me, eg 4cc Heal 1 per ally removed from GY, still puts it above similarly costed healing cards.

    Whatever happens it will definitely cause big meta shift. What I would like to ask is if people don't like current meta and are willing to risk to imbalance it with such a change? For example Mill Praxix winning most of the time vs slower decks and Zaladar at tier 1 with 4x Mind Control making all fatties far worse.
    Last edited by Veles; 11-02-2018 at 10:57 AM.

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  3. #63
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    Temporary list is ugly design as it goes against established core deckbuilding rules.
    There is already a restriction of 0 for people to remember when they build. Now it would just be 1. I think the ugliness would be worth it to get the data.

    And maybe some could stay on Temporary Ban List and others could be on Temporary Restricted List, if you are that worried about Soul Reaper.

    I'm pretty sure at this stage, based on data collected and what we have seen, that just Permanent Ban for all these cards is not the best solution. It is time to reassess and try an improvement.

  4. #64
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    I agree with veles, only on the point of changing soul reaper to 4 cc and healing 1 hp per ally.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Buqs's Avatar
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    just change the cards (balance) and forget that physical ever existed!


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  6. #66
    Community Manager SEF Mango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    I'm pretty sure at this stage, based on data collected and what we have seen, that just Permanent Ban for all these cards is not the best solution. It is time to reassess and try an improvement.
    Completely disagree. I’m not sure how you draw this conclusion. If it is only based on the fact that Zaladar and Praxix have faded, then it is not a proper conclusion.

    Putting 1 copy of Reaper back into play will bring back the ugliness with which this list was implemented to remove. Having 1 copy of these cards is not a way to work around the main issue of the “no errata” rule.

    Bottom line is that these cards are broken and a stain on the game. They need to be changed, not restricted. That is the only real way to solve the problem. NOT placing them back into the game where they can once again ruin the experience of players. Especially new players.

    Again, I do not know how you found yourself arriving at this conclusion. I will say that I find it makes no sense to return back to a time where so many were unhappy with what was found in QM.
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  7. #67
    Senior Member BP Holy Punisher's Avatar
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    I also agree on changing the cards to achieve balance rather than having a 1 of restriction. If you allow to have less than 4 cards for one card then will open Pandora's box for more cards for people to ask to restrict to 2 of. Easy fix will be to nerf or rejigh them without changing the whole tcg design.
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  8. #68
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    I like to add two cents that kyles worst decision with SE continues to be propagated with the continuation of the no errata idea.

    Since the LL set seems to be going forward digital only, now is the time to let the link between physical and digital fade away and let them become the separate games they are. This would allow better flexibility in digital from here on out.


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  9. #69
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    If someone has a compelling business case that takes costs and expected benefits into account for doing errata on these cards, I'd love to see it.

  10. #70
    Member Tria's Avatar
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    Part of the meta problem is that the current state is strongly biased toward aggro. Most of LL1 were powerful low cost creatures, such as Zailen Scholar being must answer. There aren't real catchup tools against mages that go Kris, Fatebreaker, Aldon, you're at 15, nova fireball fireball dead. Soul reaper compounds this in Zal/Prax, giving them the crucial extra turn or two after you stabilize against early swarms. Having played a lot of Magic recently, the ability to block creatures trying to maximize damage against you to burn you out buys so much life that we just don't have.

    I would much rather play against AoA/stall, because there exists counterplay, and there is time to find those answers. Cards like LLN, Shriek of Revulsion, which have solid general function against a wide array of other cards (anklebreaker, ss, badu, kp...). A game against rush mage can be decided in the first few turns. Stall at least is a *game*. You have the decisions of what threats to make, and just being proactive feels better than trying to stem a t3 5/5 zailen scholar.

    Also, no one pointed at Elementalis when discussing Soul Reaper. This makes me sad. Is it possible to ban cards on certain heroes only?
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