Vull the Insatiable Suggestion

[A1 Surprise]

Shadow faction has access to summon allys without paying the cost. Look at Gravebone and Bloodfang. Vull is a strong ally for those heroes.

Riphide and forgotten horror are much, much better.

Until I see Vull breaking Gravebone and Bloodfang, I don't really agree

Not to mention that Human faction has access to Garina Road

[High There]

Shadow don't fatty roll.
Vull needs an additional condition to have an impact.
So kion >> vull

[Wimbled]

Vull needs some improvement. At the moment he has only marginal uses, even GB has better options like Dakrath and Horror. He's a niche card that is not very strong. I'm yet to see a top deck that runs him.

Kion, on the contrary, is a card that is generally good and fits many decks. It became very popular instantly, and is used in many decks with great success. It has potential for interaction with many commonly used allies like Layarian Knight, Aeon, Viska vs weapons etc. Vull doesn't offer this kind of potential: part of the problem is that Shadow don't have good 5cc or 6cc drops for non tribe based builds. They lack the generic drops that fit a bigger variety of deck ideas: you can see that only few good Shadow decks run 5/6cc drops other than the occasional SK or FH (if you exclude GB). At the competitive level ally based decks like wagon prax or ele usually run max 4cc allies.

If Vull had the same ability Kion has it would be great. If he was homunculus he would have more potential. Like this he's never going to become other than an ally with little to no use.

On a bigger scale I really see the need for good 5cc and 6cc (possibly non tribe) allies for Shadow, to enhance variety in their deck building possibilities. Allies that are generally good and fit many builds. Humans have the likes of Brax, Aeon, Viska, Nathanias, Kion. I would like to see the possibility for Shadow as well to create competitive builds with a higher resource curve for allies, it would bring so many new possibilities to deck building. I know that it's difficult to balance the game right but these are my thoughts. Let's start with Vull!

[AmberFade]

The shadow fatties are not the problem. I can bet with you that Vull would be way more utilized if he was a human card. Shadows generally lack synergetic cards like Garena road and Heroes that can utilize them. Look at the human side, you have Lance, Tala, Boris, Ythan, Rogues, Priests. All classes heroes that offer lots of control or are genrally suited to play a fatty roll build.

On Shadowside you have Vess/Gravebone/BF. Others have no synergy with fatties whatsoever.

As a simple thought experiment put shadow fatties into human decks and looks if they are still so bad:

Scourge in Lance -> awesome
Kairos in Tala -> Awesome
Ogloth in Garth -> Awesome

Now take good Fatties that arent Kion from the human side and put them into shadow decks, you would use Horror and Riphide over them anyway wouldnt you?

Imo no matter how good the fatties are they will never be any good on Shadowside, (outside of Gravebone maybe) until we get some new synergertic cards for them on shadow side or a new hero/class that can utilize them better.

[Wimbled]

The shadow fatties are not the problem. I can bet with you that Vull would be way more utilized if he was a human card. Shadows generally lack synergetic cards like Garena road and Heroes that can utilize them. Look at the human side, you have Lance, Tala, Boris, Ythan, Rogues, Priests. All classes heroes that offer lots of control or are genrally suited to play a fatty roll build.

On Shadowside you have Vess/Gravebone/BF. Others have no synergy with fatties whatsoever.

As a simple thought experiment put shadow fatties into human decks and looks if they are still so bad:

Scourge in Lance -> awesome
Kairos in Tala -> Awesome
Ogloth in Garth -> Awesome

Now take good Fatties that arent Kion from the human side and put them into shadow decks, you would use Horror and Riphide over them anyway wouldnt you?

Imo no matter how good the fatties are they will never be any good on Shadowside, (outside of Gravebone maybe) until we get some new synergertic cards for them on shadow side or a new hero/class that can utilize them better.

I agree that Shadow might need some new synergetic cards as well but I don't agree with the rest of the post. Give them access to Brax, Viska and Nath and you'll see that many decks will be built around those. Many others will throw in a couple of Braxes and Viskas because they make most decks better.

If I had Brax, Viska, Aeon, Nath, Kion for Shadow, I would run them in many decks. Brax and Viska in most. Riphide is a card I've never used outside wulven builds, horror never outside GB or UD builds. You don't have to have a fatty oriented build for humans to run Brax and Viska, even Kion and Nath. They are not niche cards like their shadow counterparts.

Viska for shadow -> awesome
Brax for shadow -> awesome
Aeon for shadow -> good

About Garina road: It was a very strong tool but after the nerf I don't find it necessary for most fatty oriented builds.

[AmberFade]

I agree that Shadow might need some new synergetic cards as well but I don't agree with the rest of the post. Give them access to Brax, Viska and Nath and you'll see that many decks will be built around those. Many others will throw in a couple of Braxes and Viskas because they make most decks better.

If I had Brax, Viska, Aeon, Nath, Kion for Shadow, I would run them in many decks. Brax and Viska in most. Riphide is a card I've never used outside wulven builds, horror never outside GB or UD builds. You don't have to have a fatty oriented build for humans to run Brax and Viska, even Kion and Nath. They are not niche cards like their shadow counterparts.

Viska for shadow -> awesome
Brax for shadow -> awesome
Aeon for shadow -> good

About Garina road: It was a very strong tool but after the nerf I don't find it necessary for most fatty oriented builds.

You raise some valid points, its true that human fatties are less conditional and therefore versatile. I dont agree that they would see too much play in shadow anyway aside of Brax and Viska. Shadows can already use Timelord, he is basically a slightly weaker Viska and I never see any of them in shadow decks despite not being niche.

Elementals wont use them for sure, they play mostly low CC allies due to either no draw or antimatter as primary draw that costs 3CC every turn (except Millprax I guess). Shadow Hunters arent too good with fatty builds, the only deck that could make it work is probably Banebow (but he is way better with midranged builds aswell). Same story for the rest of the shadow heroes aside of Vess/GB/BF.

Even if we agree that shadow fatties are worse than human fatties I still dont think there would be too many decks using human fatties on shadow side outisde of Vess/GB/BF. Meanwhile you could be sure that if you give human side cards like Brutal Minotaur, Scourge, Darkrath they would see way more play than on shadow side.

So I guess its a bit of both. Not too much variety of versatile fatties on shadow side and lack of synergy with heroes since most of them work best with 2-5CC allies.

Garena is still a very usefull tool for said decks because of the Seek, its true that it isnt a must anymore like before tho. Decks with strong draw like Boris dont really need it.

[dejvo]

Meanwhile you could be sure that if you give human side cards like Brutal Minotaur, Scourge, Darkrath they would see way more play than on shadow side.

Would they? Lance could make use of Colossus and maybe Infernus vs mages (no way for Minotaur) and Darkrath/Kairos could make appreance in Tala decks and that's it. Why would you want to cast Darkrath when you got Nath? On the other hand Brax would be in every decent Shadow deck, so would Viska (comparing Timelord with Viska, really? when he gets damage reduction from weapons maybe), Nath would find his way into many decks. The reason Shadow are not good with Fatty builds is they don't really have good fatties. Bloodfang with Nath/Viska and fatty roll would be awesome deck

[SEF Mango]

Well, this totally went off subject. lol.

I am still of the mind that Vull needs to give friendly allies the ability to deal +1 damage.

It is like Aldon for shadow but cost 7. I do not see that as such a terrible thing. Sure, the impact would be huge, but that is what we are seeing with Kion. When Kion comes down onto the board, it is a game changer. At the moment, Vull is only changing channels on TV from the couch.

Give Vull the option for +1 damage. Remove the attack boost when an ally dies.

Maybe then we can see what Vull is capable of. Otherwise, Vull will just continue to be a cool looking card that will see minimal usage while Kion is enjoying playtime in nearly every human deck if the player can afford him.

[Fristar]

Well, this totally went off subject. lol.

I am still of the mind that Vull needs to give friendly allies the ability to deal +1 damage.

It is like Aldon for shadow but cost 7. I do not see that as such a terrible thing. Sure, the impact would be huge, but that is what we are seeing with Kion. When Kion comes down onto the board, it is a game changer. At the moment, Vull is only changing channels on TV from the couch.

Give Vull the option for +1 damage. Remove the attack boost when an ally dies.

Maybe then we can see what Vull is capable of. Otherwise, Vull will just continue to be a cool looking card that will see minimal usage while Kion is enjoying playtime in nearly every human deck if the player can afford him.

Agreed. Kion over Vull cause of board changer. Vull doesnt do that at all