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  1. #71
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    About the Gambit's change, we'll see in the time, but I think that will be play kizi games in the next future without the draw power of the kizifan.com. If you want this, its fine.
    Vic is dead after the last changes, the other Hunters will take his place soon :/
    Last edited by mecygywot; 03-10-2018 at 02:11 PM.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillipw123 View Post
    I think Victor is a T2 hero at worst. We should at least wait until the LL2 cards are released before tinkering with gambit again.

    I managed to win a pop up with a 40 odd card Victor yesterday and had no issues with draw or maintain board You just have to supplement Gambit with other sources of draw.
    I agree with Phillip. He also kicked my Gwen with his 40 card Vic. Vic is a T2 hero at worst like he said, and he will be a t 1-1.5 hero after the next update. Mark my words.

    About gambit: Let's see what happens after the LL2 update and discuss this thing then. I don't see gambit as a problem, and I don't see Vic needing more help than he gets from the new cards. I already made a LL2 Vic deck and it's pretty good. (Thanks for the inspiration Phillip)
    Last edited by Wimbled; 03-06-2018 at 07:23 PM.

  3. #73
    Community Manager SEF Mango's Avatar
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    Maybe I just feel bad for how hard I complained about killing gambit before xD
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  4. #74
    Lead Developer / Designer Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsanoMango View Post
    Maybe I just feel bad for how hard I complained about killing gambit before xD
    I'm sorry I've not followed the whole thread since you made it. Where are you at with how you feel on it at the moment?

    I personally still think it's too much draw in one card for so little, which can be problematic in a game where draw is so valuable. It's for this reason there are not many cards that draw 2 or more cards in one go.

  5. #75
    Community Manager SEF Mango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    I'm sorry I've not followed the whole thread since you made it. Where are you at with how you feel on it at the moment?

    I personally still think it's too much draw in one card for so little, which can be problematic in a game where draw is so valuable. It's for this reason there are not many cards that draw 2 or more cards in one go.
    Funny thing is that I have completely done a 180 and come back around to where it was before adding Exile... almost. It is an incredible tool for Victor that was made insane with his ability to abuse it with a few other cards that have been made more difficult to play with.

    The card itself is definitely a top 5 card in the game. The card draw is strong indeed however, I think the biggest advantage to it is the health reduction which basically laughs at every ally in the game and makes it easier to obtain that draw. If it did 2 damage (like Shocking Grasp) as opposed to reducing 2 health, it would be more balanced as the draw would become more difficult to achieve.

    Atm, it is incredible for Banebow to go along with her Shadow Ability which is also armor piercing. Basically, Banebow has 4 unpreventable damage which allows access to very early board control since the Shadow Ability charges quickly.

    For Baduruu it also allows Him to deal with armor allies more effectively which are supposed to be his main weakness. Fortified Wisp with one hit now from a 3 attack ally (which is easy to accomplish with Undead strategy and Shroud) and bow will die easily.

    Similar reasoning as Baduruu for Gwen as well. Armor allies should be a weakness to weapon heroes.

    Ythan I don’t think will be affected too greatly by it. The usual method of play for Ythan is abusing Homunculous allies health reduction coupled with double attack which kills all armored allies anyhow.

    Skervox maybe takes the biggest hit because his ability is already garbage against armor allies. Although, it is an ability that locks down the board and only a couple cards are able to ignore the “disabled” status.

    So, this is where I have come to,

    Hunters Gambit
    3cc
    Attachment

    Attach to target opposing ally. That ally takes 2 Bow damage. (Future interaction with hunter allies/items/abilities possible? Don’t know, just a thought) When Hunters Gambit is destroyed, you draw 2 cards.

    Also, having it be “bow damage” would make it not one shot Layarian Knight right?

    So, once again it is available for Victor to recycle. However, with the health reduction changed to damage, it is more challenging to obtain the draw. As it should be for a card that deals damage, draws cards, for 3 cost.
    Last edited by SEF Mango; 03-09-2018 at 06:15 PM.
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  6. #76
    Lead Developer / Designer Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsanoMango View Post

    Hunters Gambit
    3cc
    Attachment

    Attach to target opposing ally. That ally takes 2 Bow damage. (Future interaction with hunter allies/items/abilities possible? Don’t know, just a thought) When Hunters Gambit is destroyed, you draw 2 cards.
    Issue there is you just killed off main original aim of the card. It was to let Victor know he could kill off whatever ally regardless of damage reduction or prevention by simply putting this attachment on after he dropped them to 1HP. Your version means a Sandworm or Dakrath or ally benefitting from Tome of Blessings would laugh in his face. The draw was the extra pay-off for him for the successful kill, but I don't think drawing 2 cards is needed.

  7. #77
    Community Manager SEF Mango's Avatar
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    I can see the reasoning for helping Victor behind the design of the card for those extremley annoying allies. However, if you play it out right, you should still have some other opportunity to kill Sandworm and Dakrath.

    For myself, I am trying to find a way that we can allow for it to be recycled by Victor without being too strong.

    Also, i feel it gives the other Hunters too much value as well in regards to what there bad match ups should be.

    While this kills the original intention of the card, aimed at Victor, I think it balances the card as a whole for the class while allowing you to recycle it for the draw.

    The draw is what Victor lacks at this time. His main sources are Wrath of the Forrest and Tainted Oracle with Gambit being a one time usage. While the ally death was always great to have guaranteed after ability usage, 90% of the cases you will be able to kill the ally after you target it with your ability anyhow. Maybe Dakrath, Sandworm and Fortified will still be a pain to get rid of but heck, they are supposed to be a pain in the butt.

    Tome of Blessings is a card that may see more play in future with new releases. However, it actually screws all classes other than Wulven and Rogues with their access to cheap removal anyway. He can still bring that ally down to 1 health and that is more than most others can do.

    I believe that Victory can still find a way to deal 3 damage to an ally after bringing it down to 1. His ability is highly undervalued in my opinion because it does not kill. So, opposed to figuring out other ways to deal with 1 health from an armored ally, people just want the easy option of a complete kill.

    When you have the option to bring Nathanias, Kion, Vull, Aeon and any other 8 HP ally down to 1, you have already accomplished quite a bit.

    Dakrath is an issue. It's like you always say though right? 7cc is supposed to be good.
    Last edited by SEF Mango; 03-09-2018 at 07:45 PM.
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  8. #78
    Lead Developer / Designer Gondorian's Avatar
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    Hunters gambit change

    Quote Originally Posted by InsanoMango View Post
    I can see the reasoning for helping Victor behind the design of the card for those extremley annoying allies. However, if you play it out right, you should still have some other opportunity to kill Sandworm and Dakrath.

    For myself, I am trying to find a way that we can allow for it to be recycled by Victor without being too strong.

    Also, i feel it gives the other Hunters too much value as well in regards to what there bad match ups should be.

    While this kills the original intention of the card, aimed at Victor, I think it balances the card as a whole for the class while allowing you to recycle it for the draw.

    The draw is what Victor lacks at this time. His main sources are Wrath of the Forrest and Tainted Oracle with Gambit being a one time usage. While the ally death was always great to have guaranteed after ability usage, 90-95% of the cases you will be able to kill the ally after you target it with your ability anyhow. Maybe Dakrath, Sandworm and Fortified will still be a pain to get rid of but heck, they are supposed to be a pain in the butt.

    Tome of Blessings is a card that may see more play in future with new releases. However, it actually screws all classes other than Wulven and Rogues with their access to cheap removal anyway. He can still bring that ally down to 1 health and that is more than most others can do.

    I believe that Victory can still find a way to deal 3 damage to an ally after bringing it down to 1.
    Victor was never above Tier2 before SF because he could not rely on a kill with his ability, which meant it could recycle a card but have no meaningful board impact even when combined with some other card. A Kris or cheap Weapon might sometimes do the job, but not always due to stealth or damage reduction or a trap or something. So I came up with the -1HP that would almost kill the ally 99.9% of the time after he had dropped it to 1HP. If you want that gone then what you are asking for is a different card.

    I understand that the draw is important but draw can be got in a lot of ways. This was meant to be the card that he can reliably use to get rid of almost any ally for his 4SE.

  9. #79
    Community Manager SEF Mango's Avatar
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    Draw for Hunters is always a tough thing to accomplish. Wrath of the Forrest is your number 2 draw option. It is easily broken by so many item removal in game though.

    Treasured Heirloom is Victors best other option besides Gambit and Tainted Oracle. You have Bad Santa as a tool for some burst draw but likely only 2 copes.

    The Anmor Victor that was running rampant in SE not long ago worked great because it was able utilize the best 2 draw options available to Hunters, Wrath of the Forrest and Hunter's Gambit.

    I know it is a different card with my suggestion. I am just trying to figure out a way for him to recycle it for draw. This is a great help to him it would be more beneficial for his game play than not having the ability to KO Dakrath or Sandworm. At least in my opinion.

    Also, as i mentioned, I do feel that it is too great a help to the weapon heroes in Hunter Class in helping them deal with Armor allies. Or Banebow having access to so much unpreventable damage.

    Trying to find a balance between helping one Hero while not hurting the others is tricky. I just find that if we want it help Victor succeed, giving him back his best draw option would be best. It would help speed up his play so that he gets through his deck quicker and makes his way to answers for those pesky armor allies.

    Sure, it is now not the best control AND draw card in the game. Actually, it still likely is. Just not as perfect.
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