Hunters gambit change

[dejvo]

this is funny. pre-gambit vic was crap, gambit was created to help vic, vic was too good, gambit was nerfed for vic (buffed for others), surprise, surprise vic is crap again, who would have expected that.

So there are two ways go. First make gambit recyclable again, make Vic great again. In that case nerf the draw and hurt everyone (-2 health is still good to use it).
Second, redesign the card, remove the health change so Vic can't kill but can use it for draw.
Third (yes third) - we need more cards with lot of text (turn your sarcasm detector on) so do something like if (hero=vic) {gambit.exiled; msg "no gambit for you"} else {gambit.graveyard} to make it even more easy for ppl to understand.

Also hope this is a lesson for you not to design recurring cards/abilities as these always end up being a trouble

[Nijjis]

I really like my suggestion, most the time my suggestions are mediocre I'll admit but this is what I proposed:

"If hunters gambit came from your graveyard and is not played before the end of your turn exile this card"

This would stop Vic from being able to use hero power to kill an ally while also hanging onto gambit for future turns / problems, which I estimate happens quite frequently.

you have to play gambit that turn or its gone... That in itself is a VERY strong nerf

As one of, if not the most successful victor player (in ladder not competitive play) I feel like I have a pretty good handle on what makes victor tick. And in my opinion gambit was never that big of an issue, anmors at 3cc was 80% of the problem I would guess. If you left anmors at three the gambit nerf would have actually been not all too devastating.

I know this is bragging / not even necessarily relevant to the discussion to bring up how I awesome of a player I am. But I have an inflated ego in this regard and like to fantasize that I'm a leading authority in this discussion.

[LeonTheBarbarian]

Guess what?? I just had my 14 Banebow streak trashed by exactly the same Victor build that got hit with the last series of Hunter cards nerfs Apparently it did suffer heavy draw problems yet managed to close the game - usually keeping at 1-2 cards at hand. Been (luckily) so long I faced this deck.. It was truely refreshing experience seeing how all these cards perform now after changes to them. It was a really challenging and interesting game that couldn t be possible if Gambit had any recycling ability whatsoever. Even the lack of cantrip on Overwhelm felt like a blessing in that close game. Summing up this experience I can only say this deck is still pretty strong.

[SEF Mango]

Anmor being 4 instead of three doesn’t change anything about the card really. Many times in old Vic you didn’t play Anmor turn 3 anyway because of possible tempo loss. Turn 4 makes no difference. The main issue was that deck was its unstoppable engine, Gambit.

If your opponent had Anmor in play but no Gambit, I never remember having the great an issue. It was the constant Gambit recycling AND Anmor together that wrecked. Both separate are good, together they were godly.

I actually want to bring back Anmor to 3 and see what happens. Gambit also needs some kind of rework to allow Victor to utilize it and rise back up to the upper tiers.

We need more hero to be competitive, not less. Victor is playable but it is not a “strong” hero unless piloted by some creative and great players.

I am with Nijjis on his idea. I honestly have no idea how else to work it

[Nijjis]

Idk if I agree with you mango.. My memory is a tad foggy but I feel like the deck was robust enough to hang around in games without hitting gambit by turn 8-10 or so. It ran plenty of card draw I'm guessing i used somewhere in the 12-15 range for a 50-60 card deck.. Which is a lot.

Of course not finding a gambit is completely sub-optimal but i definitely remember winning more than a few games where I had to use my ability multiple times without the benefit of having gambit. As long as I could find anmors, or some form of resource engine (anmors wotf etc) early enough to convert on the allies I was spamming.. That's what it boils down to. Without anmors you just can't ramp up the same way... You could have all the card draw in the world but are limited to gaining at most one resource per turn.

It's almost exactly like jade Druid from hearthstone.. Anmors is the ramp that lets you hit turn 10 while your opponent is on turn 5. The ramp without the draw or vice versa lowers the potential, but the difference here is without anmors you have to sacrifice cards from your hand to get resources. With anmors you get to play more cards, and just like in hearthstone you're looking for that ramp first and foremost I'm almost all your matchups.

[Nijjis]

I could be wrong here.. I don't think I tested the deck enough post nerf to be for sure.. But I think the difference between 3 and 4 is actually verrrrrry massive.. At 3cc you could quite often stick and convert a 1 and 2cc ally into resources, sometimes more! Sometimes you would convert 3 1cc allies by playing 1cc on turn one and 2 1cc on turn 2. This is as good as if not better than having cards in hand (a full hand as opposed to one running low on cards). If any of those allies die before I get to play anmors its basically the same as me missing out on drawing cards. So at 3cc the odds were very good I would convert at least one often more into resources.. At 4cc the odds of me missing out on those resources just skyrocketed.

basically the difference here would be like.. It would amount to starting off each game with 1 less card in your hand, maybe even 2. That's basically how big of an impact the nerf has had.

[SEF Mango]

I will take you word for it. That deck was everywhere and everyone was playing it so I never did.

I still would like to see these cards reverted in a way to help bring Vic back towards the top.

We just need to put a little more thought into it.

[jonmaciel]

I think the exile part is fine. If you want to help Vic a bit, you could drop it back to 2cc and -1hp instead of the current 3cc and -2hp. This would allow for more tempo plays again like gambit + bobcat but without the op recursion we had before.

[SEF Mango]

I think the exile part is fine. If you want to help Vic a bit, you could drop it back to 2cc and -1hp instead of the current 3cc and -2hp. This would allow for more tempo plays again like gambit + bobcat but without the op recursion we had before.

The problem I have with that is it makes it not so great a tool any longer for other Hunters. We make that change to help Vic but ding all other Hunters. So, we might help out Vic but definitely damage all other Hunters and that is a bad trade.

I recently did some testing with Victor and did find that Anmor at 4 is a pain to work with. I can see again where in the past:

Turn 2: Ally
Turn 3: Anmor
Turn 4: Wrath of the Forrest

Was an awesome start. I am starting to lean more and more to reverting Gambit back to not Exile. Even though this thread began with killing Gambit I have now found myself coming around to removing exile from the card itself. Even though I was one of the loudest in making a change to the card.

[phillipw123]

I think Victor is a T2 hero at worst. We should at least wait until the LL2 cards are released before tinkering with gambit again.

I managed to win a pop up with a 40 odd card Victor yesterday and had no issues with draw or maintain board You just have to supplement Gambit with other sources of draw.