Preview of Balance Changes for 3.52 (out of date)

[Gondorian]

since development is always going to be slow and new cards are rare, STOP NERFING and START BUFFING cards that might counter what you think might be good.

NOW.

So there are more buffs than nerfs here and there are new cards (at least 10). I have no clue which thread you read to make your reply.

And the last set of balance changes also had a lot of buffs and new cards (15).

What more can we be doing? You want buffs, you got buffs. You want new cards? You got new cards. You don't want nerfs, I get that.

[Dvsklown]

Hey, sure, we can make OP cards that will be used a lot, that will blur lines between classes and factions and mask intentional weaknesses of some of them, but that's not balance either. Of course, on-summon ability is better for the person using it.

But you claim this is going to be an improvement, decreasing to 3 does me no good if I can't use the card in the first place. Playability just isn't there, vermin is just crazy, still sustain, still low attack, and now even lower chances of using its ability. Why bother at all?

[Gondorian]

But you claim this is going to be an improvement, decreasing to 3 does me no good if I can't use the card in the first place. Playability just isn't there, vermin is just crazy, still sustain, still low attack, and now even lower chances of using its ability. Why bother at all?

Well, why don't we backtrack a bit. Why do you think you need Vermin in your deck? What are you wanting to blow up? Are you aggro/midrange/control/other? What hero are we talking about? I don't think trying to discuss in general terms will get us very far.

Thanks for engaging in constructive discussion though.

[Dvsklown]

.

[BlastMan]

SHATTERED FATES

NERF, not on summon anymore, huge nerf - Sorcerer of Endia - Ability changed to "0: If a player controls at least 3 items and/or abilities, you may exile one of them and Sorcerer of Endia is returned to your hand at the end of the turn."

NERF, not on summon anymore, huge nerf. sustain 1hp and takes 1 damage makes it even worse. useless now since you have to hope it survives to use. - Rapacious Vermin - Ability changed to "Sustain: 1HP. 2: If a player controls at least 3 items and/or abilities, you may destroy one of them and Rapacious Vermin takes 1 damage."

Please note the above are no longer on-summon abilities but activated abilities.

BUFF, i like this one probably better than than a perfect shot now -Wave Collapse - Casting cost reduced to 3cc (from 4cc).

NERF. cost 2 and now uses durability, huge nerf - Loom of Fate - Casting cost increased to 2cc (from 1cc). Durability set to 3 durability. Ability changed to "1D: All players draw a card."

BUFF, technically, doesnt make it more useful. - Griffoncrest Dagger - Ability changed to "While you have fewer than 4 cards in your hand, Griffoncrest Daggerhas +1 attack."

BUFF, technically. the extra durability is nothing. - Looter's Baton - Durability increased to 5D (from 4D).



LOST LANDS

BUFF, technically. only because he can now use it on himself, like before but attack is only 2 for him. +2 on all other allies is good. Unaxio Squire - Attack reduced to 0sword (from 1sword).
Ability changed to "Meek (this ally can't attack heroes). 0: Until the start of your next turn, target friendly ally has +2 attack."

NERF - killed this card, good job removing a playable card from play. this nerf alone negates the buffs you did since they were mostly not good buffs anyway - Feasterling - Ability changed to "Sustain: 1HP. 0: Feasterling has +2 attack until the end of the turn, and your hero takes 1 damage."

NEITHER - basically destroys one card and makes up another card, but probably more annoying than before for opposing player. Aldmor Sentry - Casting cost increased to 5cc (from 3cc). Attack increased to 3sword (from 2sword). Health increased to 6HP (from 4HP).

NERF - but doesnt matter all that much in the long run, dont know why the change to begin with - Sosilo: Brothers' Landing - Turn number increased to T5 (from T4).



CAMPAIGN

BUFF - could be a good change or doesnt really change how much its played, dont know yet - Red-Eyed Worg - Ability cost reduced to 1cc (from 2cc).

BUFF - the best one you did but possibly too much, dont know yet. - Great Bear - Ability changed to "Great Bear has +2 attack while attacking allies with cost 4 or less".

NEITHER but looks like a buff - oldschool way to increase survivability of an ally, makes it look like a buff but the reduction of his attack, negates that. does less damage to heroes and allies now, which reduces his survivability - Winthill Assailer - Attack reduced to 2sword (from 3sword). Health increased to 5HP (from 4HP).

NERF - 1 attack on defense, 2 on attack instead of 2 attack all the time. Masked Bandit - Attack reduced to 1sword (from 2sword). Ability changed to "Masked Bandit has +1 attack while attacking. When your turn ends while Masked Bandit is damaged, he is shuffled into his owner's deck."

[BlastMan]

so the total is, unless i did my math wrong is:

NERFS: 6
BUFFS: 6
NEITHER: 2

Definite killed the card: 2 vermin and feasterling.

half the buffs dont matter. maybe 3 are more playable now. so 50/50 on the buffs. compared to 4 cards being less useful than before with 2 cards killed off. yeah, great job.

[BlastMan]

The last nerfs were in March, and they were accompanied by 8 buffs and 15 new cards, and some rejigs. There have been no balance changes since then.

and how are those 8 buffs coming along? how many of the 15 new cards are being played to good use? would you like me to go back and analyze those for you?

I can understand why you might be upset about the changes, but remember you can disagree with them and bring up points without such harsh tones. For example, instead of "calling out" GDC for using usage stats, you should simply suggest that he doesn't use them. Same point, different and more effective tone, more likely to be taken seriously (you can even explain how angry it makes you without actually getting angry in the response itself).

ive been nice, nice gets you ignored as well, when its not what is wanted to be heard? the previous nerf to vermin and sorcerer, went completely unheard and what was said would happen, did. its that simple. you all didnt want to hear it, just heard the few complaints about them (from mostly stall players, some heavy control players too) and looked at the STATS. those stats he loves watching, they are his bible. ive nicely said he shouldnt use them more than to just check which cards might be too much, but also to see that maybe its just that they are popular at the moment. vermin and sorcerer were not op (but you are not changing them back, which is just dumb), just popular, simply because they were decent tech you could always have in your deck without hurting it. you can go on and on about other means of id and ability removal but they all hurt your deck to add them. giving you other bad matchups because you added them to make these other matchups better.

So there are more buffs than nerfs here and there are new cards (at least 10). I have no clue which thread you read to make your reply.

And the last set of balance changes also had a lot of buffs and new cards (15).

What more can we be doing? You want buffs, you got buffs. You want new cards? You got new cards. You don't want nerfs, I get that.

there are not more buffs than nerfs, see my previous post and then ignore it as you ignored my previous post (Scourge anyone? not one single comment about that comparison, just sad.) simply invalidating it because you dont know which threads i am referencing, even though you do. if you dont, then, well, why even bothering posting anymore.

if you do not get the Scourge comments on why he doesnt get played much, then you wont get why removing on summon ability from vermin and sorcerer is so F'ing bad. we need more cards like the 3 i/a on summon vermin and sorcerer, not less.

[BlastMan]

Of course, on-summon ability is better for the person using it.

WHY is that bad? thats what all players want, cards they play to be better for them than their opponent. we want tuned decks that are are decent in the meta (not dominate the meta) that dont just autolose to some, they have a chance, so your skill can then maybe beat your opponent, not just changing around your good and bad matchups.

that would be the perfect scenario, i realize that is a pipe dream, but working towards that is better than stat watching and hearing complaints to then nerf cards.

as to hearing complaints, why do you not hear complaints against a nerf? other than this skervox thing, i have NEVER seen a nerf stopped because of complaints against it. and i love that you keep posting you reserve the right to change it in the future, LOL, we know that, we SOOOO know that, you dont need to post it. especially so much.


i think i covered everything, again, in all these posts. patiently waiting to be invalidated and ignored again. have at it.

curious, what are your usage stats on vermin and sorcerer since the last NERF? also curious about warriors. have they been played more/less/roughly same, since the last nerf?

[Dvsklown]

I think we need to go back to that other thread from March, where I was trying to justify going to 4 targets and you were opposed. (Side note: Are you actually using them now then?)

http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....bility-removal

This new delayed approach (unless you have haste) is a different approach to same issue that the 3.16 SoE/Vermin were causing, as outlined in the OP of that thread. At least with v3.52 versions, someone can go up to 3 and not be immediately punished, but they will need to deal with SoE/Vermin or end up being hit by their ability. You really think the versions that look for 4 item/abilities but on-summon is better? That means you had to wait and hold in your hand when they are already happily just using 3 (and likely go up to 4 when they have some spare ready to play).

Some people were right that stall decks got more viable because no one seemed to want to run less efficient tech than the above-curve 3.16 versions of SoE/RV. We're addressing that here with these changes and also some of the new cards.

This is from my first post in the discussion you mentioned


The real question is what is the impact of said change? The ability to drop 3 items or abilities without worry will solidify most human decks. Priest can have their draw, weapon, and armor out with no worries, rogue will be able to have more than a weapon and I'll gotten. Warriors can worry a little less about crippling blows. While elementals will struggle against low cost items and abilities. Mages will just be obsolete, will be easier than it already is to beat mages. Rated will have a good variety of human decks, shadow will be just that, a shadow of its former self. As for tourneys, will be solid 3 item/ability human decks priests, rogues, and warriors, mixed in I'm sure will be some item/ ability heavy janky stall/combo decks.



If only we could have known

[Gondorian]

so the total is, unless i did my math wrong is:

NERFS: 6
BUFFS: 6
NEITHER: 2

Definite killed the card: 2 vermin and feasterling.

half the buffs dont matter. maybe 3 are more playable now. so 50/50 on the buffs. compared to 4 cards being less useful than before with 2 cards killed off. yeah, great job.

I think calling Loom a Nerf is where you diverged from me. It's a neither.