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  1. #1
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Preview of Balance Changes for 3.52 (out of date)

    Hi all!

    We started out only revealing a subset of the planned changes to ensure there was more focused feedback on them and to get input on a potential change to Skervox. But now it's time to reveal all the changes, since it's less than two weeks until the WC2017 Regionals and the intention is to have v3.52 released before then. So consider this a heads-up.

    Note: Since the poll on Skervox has not finished yet, and it's looking more people are against it than for it, it's not mentioned here. We reserve the right to make additional changes as required before release!

    ALSO PLEASE NOTE THAT THERE ARE NEW CAMPAIGN CARDS COMING IN v3.52. They will be available in Campaign booster packs and usable in multiplayer from the outset.



    SHATTERED FATES

    Sorcerer of Endia - Ability changed to "0: If a player controls at least 3 items and/or abilities, you may exile one of them and Sorcerer of Endia is returned to your hand at the end of the turn."

    Rapacious Vermin - Ability changed to "Sustain: 1HP. 2: If a player controls at least 3 items and/or abilities, you may destroy one of them and Rapacious Vermin takes 1 damage."

    Please note the above are no longer on-summon abilities but activated abilities.

    Wave Collapse - Ability changed to "Target opposing ally has its health and base attack reduced to 1. All players discard a card from their deck."

    Loom of Fate - Casting cost increased to 2cc (from 1cc). Durability set to 3 durability. Ability changed to "1D: All players draw a card."

    Griffoncrest Dagger - Ability changed to "While you have fewer than 4 cards in your hand, Griffoncrest Dagger has +1 attack."

    Looter's Baton - Durability increased to 5D (from 4D).

    Sword of Might - Ability changed to "Sword of Might has +2 attack while attacking allies with cost 5 or greater."



    LOST LANDS

    Unaxio Squire - Attack reduced to 0sword (from 1sword).
    Ability changed to "Meek (this ally can't attack heroes). 0: Until the start of your next turn, target friendly ally has +2 attack."

    Feasterling - Ability changed to "Sustain: 1HP. 0: Feasterling has +2 attack until the end of the turn, and your hero takes 1 damage."

    Aldmor Sentry - Casting cost increased to 5cc (from 3cc). Attack increased to 3sword (from 2sword). Health increased to 6HP (from 4HP).

    Sosilo: Brothers' Landing - Turn number increased to T5 (from T4).

    Anmor: Garina Road - Turn number increased to T5 (from T4).



    CAMPAIGN

    Red-Eyed Worg - Ability cost reduced to 1cc (from 2cc).

    Great Bear - Ability changed to "Great Bear has +2 attack while attacking allies with cost 4 or less".

    Winthill Assailer - Attack reduced to 2sword (from 3sword). Health increased to 5HP (from 4HP).

    Masked Bandit - Attack reduced to 1sword (from 2sword). Ability changed to "Masked Bandit has +1 attack while attacking. When your turn ends while Masked Bandit is damaged, he is shuffled into his owner's deck."



    As always, your feedback is appreciated. Please try to stay constructive.

  2. #2
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    New campaign cards in case people don't want to go to the other thread with them on. (Please do comment there instead though.)




    Layarian Knight - 2cc Human Ally - 2sword/3HP
    All combat damage to Layarian Knight is reduced by 1.
    All ability damage to Layarian Knight is increased by 1.




    Layarian Sentinel - 2cc Human Ally - 0sword/4HP
    Defender (When this ally is attacked, the attacker takes combat damage first.)
    Layarian Sentinel has +3 attack while defending.




    Phaedon Barbarian - 4cc Shadow Ally - 3sword/4HP
    When your hero kills an ally in combat, Phaedon Barbarian is readied.




    Phaedon Commander - 5cc Shadow Ally - 5sword/4HP
    When Phaedon Commander is summoned, target other friendly Shadow ally has all negative effects removed, takes 1 damage and gains +1 base attack.




    Darklight Timelord - 6cc Neutral Ally (Aldmor) - 2claw/8HP
    Haste. 2SE: Target card in a graveyard is placed on top of its owner's resource pile: the bottom card of that resource pile is placed in your hand.




    Resolute Hornbeam - 5cc Neutral Ally - 2claw/6HP
    Steadfast (this ally can't leave play unless it is killed). At the end of each of your turns, draw a card if your hand is empty.




    Winged Redeemer - 5cc Neutral Ally - 2claw/5HP
    When Winged Redeemer is summoned, target enemy support ability is exiled (removed from the game). When Winged Redeemer enters play, draw a card if your hand is empty.




    Poisoned Well - 1cc Neutral Artifact
    At the start of your turn, take 1 poison damage for each item you control and Poisoned Well is destroyed.
    2: Target player takes control of Poisoned Well and takes 1 poison damage.




    Higher Ground - 2cc Neutral Support Ability - Duration 3.
    Friendly allies with defender have +1 attack. 2: Target opposing ally attacks target friendly ally if able.




    By The Sword - 2cc Neutral Support Ability - Duration 3.
    Friendly allies with sword attack gain +1 base attack at the end of the turn they were summoned.

  3. #3
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    You kept the change to vermin and sorcerer? You seriously think the change is an improvement? Who's approving this? Do they play this game? Who actually thinks this is an improvement? This is the change that kills both these card. I'm so confused. Activated ability is slow, on summon fast, making the cards slower and way less reliable

    Hope these last cards to be revealed are some decent shadow cards, so far shadow is getting the shaft with those nice usable low cost allies for humans to get games started at a good tempo.
    Last edited by Dvsklown; 11-12-2017 at 12:47 AM.

  4. #4
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dvsklown View Post
    You kept the change to vermin and sorcerer? You seriously think the change is an improvement? Who's approving this? Do they play this game? Who actually thinks this is an improvement? This is the change that kills both these card. I'm so confused. Activated ability is slow, on summon fast, making the cards slower and way less reliable
    I think we need to go back to that other thread from March, where I was trying to justify going to 4 targets and you were opposed. (Side note: Are you actually using them now then?)

    http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....bility-removal

    This new delayed approach (unless you have haste) is a different approach to same issue that the 3.16 SoE/Vermin were causing, as outlined in the OP of that thread. At least with v3.52 versions, someone can go up to 3 and not be immediately punished, but they will need to deal with SoE/Vermin or end up being hit by their ability. You really think the versions that look for 4 item/abilities but on-summon is better? That means you had to wait and hold in your hand when they are already happily just using 3 (and likely go up to 4 when they have some spare ready to play).

    Some people were right that stall decks got more viable because no one seemed to want to run less efficient tech than the above-curve 3.16 versions of SoE/RV. We're addressing that here with these changes and also some of the new cards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    I think we need to go back to that other thread from March, where I was trying to justify going to 4 targets and you were opposed. (Side note: Are you actually using them now then?)

    http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....bility-removal

    This new delayed approach (unless you have haste) is a different approach to same issue that the 3.16 SoE/Vermin were causing, as outlined in the OP of that thread. At least with v3.52 versions, someone can go up to 3 and not be immediately punished, but they will need to deal with SoE/Vermin or end up being hit by their ability. You really think the versions that look for 4 item/abilities but on-summon is better? That means you had to wait and hold in your hand when they are already happily just using 3 (and likely go up to 4 when they have some spare ready to play).

    Some people were right that stall decks got more viable because no one seemed to want to run less efficient tech than the above-curve 3.16 versions of SoE/RV. We're addressing that here with these changes and also some of the new cards.
    Yes I fought to keep it 3, I felt like it kept items and abilities in check, turns out I was right. Yes I currently use them, with elementals, as they are the best option for item destruction imo. Other options lead me to play many many cards to cover all my bases. Now I suffer until they hit 4 and can only then use its ability for a guaranteed item/ability kill.

    With the change now I must have a readied vermin on the field, with the vast amount of ways to kill/disable/freeze/return to hand/prevent usage, I'm not feeling confident it's going to get the job done. With stall in mind the staller is loving this change.

    You want us to use more of a variety of item destruction? Then give us more of a decent variety. Can hardly justify using most of it because it's all so limited, very specific. Can't flow too many different things to kill. How fluid could it be? Ok so neglect something, now choose what your deck will be weak to.
    Last edited by Dvsklown; 11-12-2017 at 01:54 AM.

  6. #6
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    are you all out of your collective minds? im starting to think you guys are worse than Kyle.

    the number one reason people, great players not the average, leave this game, isnt slow development, its this crap. nerf nerf nerf.

    new people find the game and play. half goof them go, "thats it?" and leave. the rest play and see what is good and grind and grind to get those good cards. then once they get them and play with them for a bit (maybe not even get to play them), they get nerfed. and you lose half of those new players. those that are left (one quarter, if that, of those new players), they might think maybe that was needed and go about grinding and grinding to get something else they see is good. and BOOM, you nerf those. and those few that are left, go "F this, i aint working to get cards only to lose them" while that is going on, you lose some more of the current player base, for this reason.

    now those same new people who stayed after the initial leaving of new players who try the game and think its too watered down. they dont mind losing those cards they worked so hard to get if its because some new cards came along that were better. since development is always going to be slow and new cards are rare, STOP NERFING and START BUFFING cards that might counter what you think might be good.

    NOW.

    you guys messed up nerfing vermin/sorcerer. every reason stated in that thread against nerfing was proved valid. you cant admit that because you would have to revert them to the original and you just cant accept that you messed up and reverting them would mean you would have to admit to yourself, that you were wrong. cant think of any other reason you wouldnt revert them back. warriors suck anyway overall and you do nothing about it.

    still, you need to change. so lets get rid of the on summon ability and go back to 3. but have to wait till next turn. you seriously think that is going to work? sorcerer might but only in lance/portal human decks. beyond that, no. vermin, if used, will be in elementalis only. they are worse than staying at 4 on summon. ill give you an example of how having to wait for them to work is dumb. Scourge Colossus. an expensive premier legendary card. outside of portal decks, do you EVER see it? why? cause you have to wait to use it and it gets killed before you can. if it doesnt, if it sticks, you were winning anyway. so lets put vermin and sorcerer in that same pool as Scourge. and to me, i would use scourge over this version of vermin, but still wont use scourge. what does that say?

    AND WTH???

    Feasterling - Ability changed to "Sustain: 1HP. 0: Feasterling has +2 attack until the end of the turn, and your hero takes 1 damage." - WOW, way to absolutely kill a card. there is absolutely no benefit to playing this card anymore. wonder why you didnt add that to the vermin/sorcerer post? you really didnt want to feel the hate? dont see Masked Bandit being played much at all anymore either.

    and something i have to say directly to you gondorian, stop looking at usage stats. they do not determine what is op, they determine only what is popular at the time. do you not understand the difference between popular and good?
    (want an example of the difference? Trump and Hilary were popular. neither was any good. Bernie Sanders was good but not popular. do you SEE the difference?) could be because they are good or could be because they fill a purpose in that particular meta, but doesnt point out op. stopping F'ing things up doing this.
    Last edited by BlastMan; 11-12-2017 at 02:38 AM.

  7. #7
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    Just to point out playability of on summon vs activated, compare jasmine rosecult or Aldmor sentry to layarian seductress. And sentry has 3 abilities, one being can't be disabled. But who gets more play? Why is that? Because allies can be stopped so easily. The on summon in seductress gives it what 10X more playability, nah gotta be more, 50X. Gondo could you tell us exactly how much more seductress' ability is played than both jasmine and sentry combined? The actual ability not just the card.
    Last edited by Dvsklown; 11-12-2017 at 03:10 AM.

  8. #8
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlastMan View Post
    the number one reason people, great players not the average, leave this game, isnt slow development, its this crap. nerf nerf nerf.
    The last nerfs were in March, and they were accompanied by 8 buffs and 15 new cards, and some rejigs. There have been no balance changes since then.

  9. #9
    DP Visionary Demnchi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlastMan View Post
    are you all out of your collective minds? im starting to think you guys are worse than Kyle.

    the number one reason people, great players not the average, leave this game, isnt slow development, its this crap. nerf nerf nerf.

    new people find the game and play. half goof them go, "thats it?" and leave. the rest play and see what is good and grind and grind to get those good cards. then once they get them and play with them for a bit (maybe not even get to play them), they get nerfed. and you lose half of those new players. those that are left (one quarter, if that, of those new players), they might think maybe that was needed and go about grinding and grinding to get something else they see is good. and BOOM, you nerf those. and those few that are left, go "F this, i aint working to get cards only to lose them" while that is going on, you lose some more of the current player base, for this reason.

    now those same new people who stayed after the initial leaving of new players who try the game and think its too watered down. they dont mind losing those cards they worked so hard to get if its because some new cards came along that were better. since development is always going to be slow and new cards are rare, STOP NERFING and START BUFFING cards that might counter what you think might be good.

    NOW.

    you guys messed up nerfing vermin/sorcerer. every reason stated in that thread against nerfing was proved valid. you cant admit that because you would have to revert them to the original and you just cant accept that you messed up and reverting them would mean you would have to admit to yourself, that you were wrong. cant think of any other reason you wouldnt revert them back. warriors suck anyway overall and you do nothing about it.

    still, you need to change. so lets get rid of the on summon ability and go back to 3. but have to wait till next turn. you seriously think that is going to work? sorcerer might but only in lance/portal human decks. beyond that, no. vermin, if used, will be in elementalis only. they are worse than staying at 4 on summon. ill give you an example of how having to wait for them to work is dumb. Scourge Colossus. an expensive premier legendary card. outside of portal decks, do you EVER see it? why? cause you have to wait to use it and it gets killed before you can. if it doesnt, if it sticks, you were winning anyway. so lets put vermin and sorcerer in that same pool as Scourge. and to me, i would use scourge over this version of vermin, but still wont use scourge. what does that say?

    AND WTH???

    Feasterling - Ability changed to "Sustain: 1HP. 0: Feasterling has +2 attack until the end of the turn, and your hero takes 1 damage." - WOW, way to absolutely kill a card. there is absolutely no benefit to playing this card anymore. wonder why you didnt add that to the vermin/sorcerer post? you really didnt want to feel the hate? dont see Masked Bandit being played much at all anymore either.

    and something i have to say directly to you gondorian, stop looking at usage stats. they do not determine what is op, they determine only what is popular at the time. do you not understand the difference between popular and good?
    (want an example of the difference? Trump and Hilary were popular. neither was any good. Bernie Sanders was good but not popular. do you SEE the difference?) could be because they are good or could be because they fill a purpose in that particular meta, but doesnt point out op. stopping F'ing things up doing this.
    I can understand why you might be upset about the changes, but remember you can disagree with them and bring up points without such harsh tones. For example, instead of "calling out" GDC for using usage stats, you should simply suggest that he doesn't use them. Same point, different and more effective tone, more likely to be taken seriously (you can even explain how angry it makes you without actually getting angry in the response itself).
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  10. #10
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dvsklown View Post
    Just to point out playability of on summon vs activated, compare jasmine rosecult or Aldmor sentry to layarian seductress. And sentry has 3 abilities, one being can't be disabled. But who gets more play? Why is that? Because allies can be stopped so easily. The on summon in seductress gives it what 10X more playability, nah gotta be more than that. Gondo could you tell us exactly how much more seductress' ability is played than both jasmine and sentry combined? The actual ability not just the card.
    Hey, sure, we can make OP cards that will be used a lot, that will blur lines between classes and factions and mask intentional weaknesses of some of them, but that's not balance either. Of course, on-summon ability is better for the person using it.

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