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Thread: Mind Control

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    Mind Control

    This spell annoying and over used. Its more or less an auto destruct and direct damage spell combined into one and every elemental deck is loaded with these. It usually inflicts a moderate to high ammount of direct damage to your hero as they only waste them on low attack allies if they absolutly have to. This card should be restricted to allies with cost of 3 or less or it should lose the autokill ability. As it is it seems pretty unfair and highly over played.

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    Senior Member AmberFade's Avatar
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    That card is perfectly fine. 5 CC is a high cost and elementals have to dump 1 turn to kill an ally. Frustration with this card only accures if people dont know how play around it. Fatty spam decks are rly strong right now, removing counterplay options to them is not a good idea (especially after shuriken got hit).
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    This card isnt fine, its way to cheap for all that it does. A sin has to spend 5 on Cohersion and atleast they have to get creative to kill your ally and only on certain occasions will they have the cards in hand to be able to attack the hero directly and still kill the ally. Most auto kill skills have restrictions or conditions. Mind control has no restrictions on targeting, no conditions to meet as far as cost or anything. Autokill spells are bad in general are a bad idea, combining one with a dd spell and having no limitations on it is absurd.

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    DP Visionary tman507's Avatar
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    The changes you propose to MC would make it completely worthless. Like, why the hell would I ever play a cost 5 card to kill something only up to 3 cost, when you've got a 2 cost card in the game that can do the same (Now You're Mine). That wouldn't be cost effective at all. Like AmberFade said, a lot of times Elementals have to use up their whole turn to just kill the one thing, and it's only really cost effective if the ally you kill is of cost 5-7 (or a very heavily buffed weenie). As for Coercion, yes it gives the ally back, but the fact that not many Rogues use Coercion is down to Coercion not being all that good, not due to MC being OP. Plus Rogues have many other control tools besides Coercion, Elementals not as much, MC is needed for them.

    Like AmberFade said, you have to learn to play around it. Same with Tidal Wave for Priests. Sure, TW is a b*tch when you get 5 allies swept away by it, so play around it by not summoning so many guys out at once. There's a way to counter everything if you know what you're doing, if MC was so broken that you couldn't play around it I'm sure they would've changed it long ago.
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    Senior Member tolerance's Avatar
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    Have you tried playing an elemental deck to state this card is overpower?
    It’s easy to make a statement if you only play against it, try play with it to the highest rating and hopefully you can understand its necessity to elementals

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    Even if it were restricted to allies of cost 3 or less most decks would still use it because of the combination of ally removal and direct damage where now your mine is only creature removal. Tidal wave is mass destruction and doesnt do any direct damage and it is a lot easier to predict and play around TW.

    Mind Control needs to be held to the same standard and restrictions as every other autokill spell. Thier is nothing special about Elementals that they should get the only unrestricted autokill spell in the game with no requirements and it has high damage potential on top of that. Do any other autokill spells do any damage at all even?If you use it on primarily 5+ allys thats a huge ammount of direct damage. And your talking about combining all that damage with a hero that can spam +3 dd every 3 turns or more.

    If MC isnt OP what competes with or compares to it? What else can inflict so much damage directly to a hero and remove thier strongest ally by itself?

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    Senior Member Veles's Avatar
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    Every class has couple of cards that are part of class identity and are a bit above the power level of similar cards. Warriors have Blood Frenzy, Priests Tidal Wave, Rogues Anklebreaker... MC is iconic card for Elementals and it is something you just learn to play around. You don't play a high attack ally vs Elemental decks unless you baited one or 2 MCs. On turn 5 play a 3cc and 2cc ally. On t6 2 3cc allies. If you have hand full of fatties play the ones with lover attack first, eg play Viska before you play Eris. There are numerous ways to force MC out of them and use the fact they spend their entire turn to play it not developing their board.

    You may find this useful:

    http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....g-Options-Pt-1
    Last edited by Veles; 11-09-2017 at 09:23 AM.

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    DP Visionary tman507's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isaria
    Even if it were restricted to allies of cost 3 or less most decks would still use it because of the combination of ally removal and direct damage where now your mine is only creature removal.
    Would they? Really? If you haven't done so, I say you go with tolerance's suggestion and try playing some Elemental yourself and imagine you can only use it on 3 cost or below allies. Get yourself into such a situation where your opponent has a 3cc and a 6cc out and see that only being able to play it on the 3cc wouldn't be good at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaria
    Tidal wave is mass destruction and doesnt do any direct damage and it is a lot easier to predict and play around TW.
    Wasn't trying to directly compare MC and TW, because yes, one is a single kill and one is mass, but my point still stands about having to know how to play around it. Don't see how TW is easier to predict; when against an Elemental and you summon a big ally it's pretty easy to predict that if he has the MC he's going to play it, just like when you summon many allies out against Priest you can bet that TW is coming.

    As for comparing MC to other instakills, the fact that it has no cost restiction and does the damage is what makes it cost 5 (more than any other instakill). For comparison:
    Now You're Mine: Only costs 2, but only can kill cost 3 or below.
    Death from Above: Also costs 2, can kill up to cost 4, but must have an ally out.
    Assassination: Costs 3 and must have an ally out (and that ally gets exhausted), but can kill any cost.
    Yari Marksman: Costs 4 and opponent must have at least 3 allies, but no cost restriction and is also a body itself.
    The Perfect Shot: Sorta instakill. Costs 4, no restriction, but only reduces to 1hp.
    Transmogrification Curse: Sorta instakill. Costs 4 + 1SE, limited by fact that you can't target same ally twice to turn into artifacts.

    By the time you get to having to spend a whole 5cc on such a card it needs to be pretty strong to be worth it at all. Again, a lot of times Elementals have to spend their whole turn on using MC, especially if it's at turn 5 or 6 that they are forced to use it to counter a big ally that just came out. That means they don't add any further board presence, which gives you your next turn to respond.

    I do get that MC can be frustrating to face, but it's part of the game, and like I said before, if the designers felt it was actually harming the game by being too good they would have changed it long ago.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member AmberFade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isaria View Post
    Even if it were restricted to allies of cost 3 or less most decks would still use it because of the combination of ally removal and direct damage where now your mine is only creature removal. Tidal wave is mass destruction and doesnt do any direct damage and it is a lot easier to predict and play around TW.
    No its not by any stretch of the imagination. Its actually way easier to play around MC. Simply throw many allies out it kills only one of them. Bait it out before playing big allies. Thats how you play around MC. How its more "predictable" doesnt make much sense to me either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaria View Post
    Mind Control needs to be held to the same standard and restrictions as every other autokill spell. Thier is nothing special about Elementals that they should get the only unrestricted autokill spell in the game with no requirements and it has high damage potential on top of that. Do any other autokill spells do any damage at all even?If you use it on primarily 5+ allys thats a huge ammount of direct damage. And your talking about combining all that damage with a hero that can spam +3 dd every 3 turns or more.
    No it absolutely doesnt. You dont undestand the entire purpose of asymetric balance and class cards apparently. If you hold MC to the same standard as other cards then you gotta hold Bloodfrenzy, Tidal Wave and any other classcard to the same standard. So rework the entire game, have fun with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isaria View Post
    If MC isnt OP what competes with or compares to it? What else can inflict so much damage directly to a hero and remove thier strongest ally by itself?
    Thats the point of the card....

    Class cards are supposed to be unique. What card except WotF gives you draw for your allies die? What kind of argument is this?

    Go and play an Elemental. If MC is as op as you are suggesting you should easily get 400 rating and own everyone. Or you simply realise that you are whining about a mechanic because its easier to do than adjusting your gameplan.
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    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmberFade View Post
    No it absolutely doesnt. You dont undestand the entire purpose of asymetric balance and class cards apparently. If you hold MC to the same standard as other cards then you gotta hold Bloodfrenzy, Tidal Wave and any other classcard to the same standard. So rework the entire game, have fun with that.

    ...

    Or you simply realise that you are whining about a mechanic because its easier to do than adjusting your gameplan.
    Maybe you know something I don't about Isaria, but the forum account was only made a couple of days ago to ask a card ruling (which was actually a bug), but it is seeming a lot like Isaria is a new player.

    Let's be a little friendlier please!

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