Preview of Some Balance Changes for 3.52

[Gondorian]

Wow, the Skervox poll is tied at 24:24 at the moment.

[Spartan]

Wow, the Skervox poll is tied at 24:24 at the moment.

Many people think that this change will kill skervox but not kill stall.
Most of them that i have spoken to, they want stall gone but not skervox.

[neratza713]

If skervox has to target x allies, he will have auto loss mu. Like tala for example. Or a hidden ally. Same thing has happened to ythan vs moonstalker and he got a buff to hit allies on stealth. If anything, his +1 attack on his allies is irrelevant. His ability is meant to help regain board and that +1 attack will hardly ever be of use, especially since the only hunter ally with a haste condition, up to this date, is bobcat or a hunter ally+will to fight ( useless combo anyway ).
So, skervox doesn't deserve a nerf, he is a mediocre hero at best who only knows how to stall. What is at fault is not the hero, but his arsenal.

[Fristar]

If skervox has to target x allies, he will have auto loss mu. Like tala for example. Or a hidden ally. Same thing has happened to ythan vs moonstalker and he got a buff to hit allies on stealth. If anything, his +1 attack on his allies is irrelevant. His ability is meant to help regain board and that +1 attack will hardly ever be of use, especially since the only hunter ally with a haste condition, up to this date, is bobcat or a hunter ally+will to fight ( useless combo anyway ).
So, skervox doesn't deserve a nerf, he is a mediocre hero at best who only knows how to stall. What is at fault is not the hero, but his arsenal.

Honestly I agree with this. Its not the hero but the cards there allowed to use.

[BP LORD WANE]

Many people think that this change will kill skervox but not kill stall.
Most of them that i have spoken to, they want stall gone but not skervox.

Not they all want stall gone. Stall is a play stylle, i really cant understend, if " no one" like stall, even devenlopers, why make cards (since COC) to game? Why not Just leave BRAINLESS rush cards? If his game with be a great rush war, without a sort of stylles like, rush, tempo, Control, mid range, MILL, STALL, or any other one, it LL be a shame and will prove that the community is made by people too lazy and without brain.

Ofc not all players are BRAINLESS or lazzy, the true good players dont cry for nerfs, they explore inusual cards and try surprise and counter the meta, like A1 RAGOSONOS, i Saw he using a unusual Card to counter actual stall meta. This is an example of good player.

[BP LORD WANE]

I made some # for help Skervox. Plz join us.

#Skervdontdie

#skervneveralone

#skervstallcrushtheyall

#inskervwetrust

#tokensforskerv

[Kylt]

Don’t care about stall and stuff.
I only evaluate the ability in comparison with others.

4SE for 2 allies disabled & poison to all ( 1 damage guaranteed)& +1 attack to hunter allies.
That’s underpowered for its cost if you compare it with other 4SE abilities like zaladar or majiya.

I mean his current ability is much better version of rain delay (2cc) and I would give it 3 or 4cc, but definitely not above 4cc. Given zal’s ability is equivalent to 4cc cars (lightning strike), I think skervox’s current ability is close to perfect.

Don’t make another Logan.




P.S. But then this is just another patch of balance changes. It could be a temporary one until part 2 of LL comes out. If that’s the case, I don’t mind the nerf. Tone down the stall for now for better customer experience.

P.S.S. Smoke screen is 4cc. Seems like current ability is appropriate.

[BlastMan]

Exile is there so you can stop item and attachment recycling. So far in the game there was no efficient way for doing that. For example, against decks like control Vess removing one attachment is very inefficient because she can easily recycle it back with Braxnorian Veteran. Sledgehammer is also hard to deal with for many decks and this takes care of it as well and also eliminates option for Reserve Weapon bringing it back. Same goes for Victor's many traps.

i didnt realize this was a problem. you can only have 4 brax vet and in my opinion, he is too weak to use in 99% of warrior decks. so this is completely targeted at Vess, who isnt really a problem to begin with. Sledgehammer SHOULD be hard to deal with. and yet ANOTHER nerf to victor? exiling gambit wasnt enough? but you thought that was cool, so lets exile other things from him too? yeah, trap vic needs to die. i thought you guys would be different, but you are all just about weakening cards and the game for the sake of "balance" and complaints instead of possibly making something else better.

Another reason for exiling is adding more synergy for Warped Desert. So far, aside Loest's ability and few exotic plays you could only get allies through Desert.

seriously? warped desert is a crap card. only used for some strange fun. the non user ability is way too powerful for it to be usable in even a slightly competitive deck, no one wants their cards to be taken from their deck, ever. and its 1se to draw 2 cards. was not majiya's 2se to draw 1 too powerful?

The bounce back is so his ability can not be spammed too many times. You play it, you wait a turn to possibly activate the ability. Opponent has a turn to react by killing it or playing around it. If his ability goes off he is not immediately returned to hand so you can not replay him instantly, but wait to play him next turn. And then wait one more turn for him to be ready to activate ability.

you opened it up to be abused with haste and ready ally cards. now instead of one shot item destruction, you gave certain human decks the ability to have ID the whole game.

Old version that took 4 items/abilities into consideration was indeed still good against stall but bad vs many other MU, because of which players rarely added them to their decks. For a tech card to be good it needs to have certain level of usability across several MUs.

because outside stall, having 4 or more out at one time was non existent except against warriors and you didnt need them to use it to tech against warriors, so they werent useful tech cards.

Older version that took 3 items/abilities into consideration however was too oppressive because opponents didn't have time to react to it. It was an ok tech vs stall but too good vs entire warrior class. If SoE/Vermin set off not only did you lose valuable item or attachment but opponent got even more in tempo by playing solid ally. What this new version does is to give opponent a chance to react. It is much more interactive that way. A midrange deck like most warriors are should be able to deal with it in numerous ways, starting from their hero abilities, weapons already in play, retreats, allies on board, etc. Heavy control decks on the other hand are greedy in ally removal and tend to set up their board to trade off many allies at once. This means they have very little single ally removal and it is more probable that SoE/Vermin will live a turn against them to use their abilities then they are against a midrange deck.

didnt have time to interact with it? are you wanting to change the whole core of the game? bring in interrupts then. give them time to stop that LLN from working as well. give them time to stop a fireball. hell, give them time to counter you casting that ally.

the whole reason they were playable with the 3 i/a restriction was BECAUSE they were an ally on board. they would be a crap card if they were not an ally. having to wait till your opponent got 3 i/a for an ability card? would never be added. and your logic that you would still be able to use it against a heavy control deck makes no sense, since it was the complaints of those heavy control deck users that got it nerfed in the first place. and thinking they wouldnt be able to deal with one ally... :shaking head:

The cost of 2 is partly because Vermin is cheaper than Sorcerer to cast. 2 resources to play Vermin and 2c to activate ability adds up to 4 resources in total. Damage is there so opponent gets a chance to kill it off. And while destroying stuff is worse than exiling it Vermin does have a chance to use his ability in successive turns. There are also ravager synergies and synergies with damaged friendly allies. By destroying items he can occasionally trigger your own Crucible and be a trigger for upcoming Chaos Engine. Another reason for his ability costing 2 is to limit tempo a bit. Activating ability should slow down a bit his controler. Historically he was played in very snowball decks like Elementalis. Controler should pay some tempo so opponent gets some breathing room to recover. For example Elemenatalis player that has 5 or 6 resources will need to decide between using Vermin's ability and playing a 3/4cc ally or playing Exaltation/MC.

he already had a cost because he was cheaper than sorcerer. and you consider this a buff to ravagers? he could already do what you said concerning ravagers. even concerning damaged allies, cause he is going to be damaged unless he is outright killed. if ravagers were more competitive, you would of already see him in ravager decks.

and you want to limit tempo? activating his ability should slow down his controller? he already cast the damned thing and takes damage because of it, why does it need more? to give his opponent breathing room? do you not understand the concept of wanting to win? what it takes to win a card game like this? you want to take all advantage AND breathing room AWAY from your opponent. i dont see him being played outside elementalis, if he is even played.

Cost was put to 2 because going first it was too good to play loom on t1 and bazzar on t2 to benefit fully from Bazaar draw. Having two infinite draw engines meant they have higher chances to draw one of them early on or if opponent destroyed one or both to draw another copy. If they are not destroyed Loom sticking forever meant all other copies were easy sacrificial choices later in the game. So this is meant to slow down their set up a bit.

At the same time this new version should be better for tempo oriented decks.

who freaking cares, its unilateral draw. both players get it. does anyone ever mind their opponent playing loom or bazaar? the only place this was a problem was in praxix. so come right out and say this is a nerf to mill prax because he was the only one to do the turn 1 and 2 combo of loom and bazaar. and its only that turn 1 and 2 play from prax you are wanting to get rid of, otherwise, this doesnt affect anything else.

I explained this above.

no you really did not. you gave well thought up, but made up, reasons. you want to nerf other things, without nerfing them directly. and without saying it was wrong to nerf vermin and sorcerer to begin with.

and you want to indirectly buff warped desert? that one was very odd. the only thing that needs to be done with warped desert is to fix that oh so freaking powerful opposing ability.

[Jari]

Are we trying to send Skervox back to join the many 2cc allies that are never used? He had one niche and it will be destroyed. I'm hoping these new cards address all these weak heroes like him. The Krugal looks promising, we'll see. I also think the SOE needs to die or exile itself.

What gives with the loom of fate change? I thought the complaint about stall was that they had more cards? If that is the complaint the chance of them getting loom of fate every time isn't that great. There are a few item seekers but not that many.

On another note I find it interesting that everyone hates stall yet that's exactly the tactic that has to be used to beat several of the three star challenges on the campaign mode. Almost like it's being promoted.

[RavingLunatic]

i thought you guys would be different, but you are all just about weakening cards and the game for the sake of "balance" and complaints instead of possibly making something else better.

This is where I am at too, sadly. I have been bouncing in every now and then to see what the new group is up to and it's frustrating to see main changes focused on nerfing and changing preexisting cards again. I voted to keep Skervox the same, for what it's worth. Oh look, let's try and make SOE and Vermin playable again, because they are needed once more. It's like a never-ending cycle...

All that said I am walking away from the game for good this time. It is a game that has brought me a lot of good times over the past few years, but I tire of this type of talk. Create something new to help the game, stop rebalancing whatever cards are part of a successful strategy to help others. Or create enough new cards that you can rotate out older sets. Or something. This is just tiresome now. For me anyways.

I'm rambling. I do hope you all can save this game and I wish you the best of luck moving forward. I won't be around to see it.