Exile is there so you can stop item and attachment recycling. So far in the game there was no efficient way for doing that. For example, against decks like control Vess removing one attachment is very inefficient because she can easily recycle it back with Braxnorian Veteran. Sledgehammer is also hard to deal with for many decks and this takes care of it as well and also eliminates option for Reserve Weapon bringing it back. Same goes for Victor's many traps.
Another reason for exiling is adding more synergy for Warped Desert. So far, aside Loest's ability and few exotic plays you could only get allies through Desert.
The bounce back is so his ability can not be spammed too many times. You play it, you wait a turn to possibly activate the ability. Opponent has a turn to react by killing it or playing around it. If his ability goes off he is not immediately returned to hand so you can not replay him instantly, but wait to play him next turn. And then wait one more turn for him to be ready to activate ability.
Old version that took 4 items/abilities into consideration was indeed still good against stall but bad vs many other MU, because of which players rarely added them to their decks. For a tech card to be good it needs to have certain level of usability across several MUs.
Older version that took 3 items/abilities into consideration however was too oppressive because opponents didn't have time to react to it. It was an ok tech vs stall but too good vs entire warrior class. If SoE/Vermin set off not only did you lose valuable item or attachment but opponent got even more in tempo by playing solid ally. What this new version does is to give opponent a chance to react. It is much more interactive that way. A midrange deck like most warriors are should be able to deal with it in numerous ways, starting from their hero abilities, weapons already in play, retreats, allies on board, etc. Heavy control decks on the other hand are greedy in ally removal and tend to set up their board to trade off many allies at once. This means they have very little single ally removal and it is more probable that SoE/Vermin will live a turn against them to use their abilities then they are against a midrange deck.
The cost of 2 is partly because Vermin is cheaper than Sorcerer to cast. 2 resources to play Vermin and 2c to activate ability adds up to 4 resources in total. Damage is there so opponent gets a chance to kill it off. And while destroying stuff is worse than exiling it Vermin does have a chance to use his ability in successive turns. There are also ravager synergies and synergies with damaged friendly allies. By destroying items he can occasionally trigger your own Crucible and be a trigger for upcoming Chaos Engine. Another reason for his ability costing 2 is to limit tempo a bit. Activating ability should slow down a bit his controler. Historically he was played in very snowball decks like Elementalis. Controler should pay some tempo so opponent gets some breathing room to recover. For example Elemenatalis player that has 5 or 6 resources will need to decide between using Vermin's ability and playing a 3/4cc ally or playing Exaltation/MC.
Cost was put to 2 because going first it was too good to play loom on t1 and bazzar on t2 to benefit fully from Bazaar draw. Having two infinite draw engines meant they have higher chances to draw one of them early on or if opponent destroyed one or both to draw another copy. If they are not destroyed Loom sticking forever meant all other copies were easy sacrificial choices later in the game. So this is meant to slow down their set up a bit.why this change? when did this become a problem? did i miss something?
At the same time this new version should be better for tempo oriented decks.
I explained this above.
sorcerer and vermin. the thing that made them usable was the on summon ability. these changes, you may not even benefit from their ability. they will be the big target and get killed before you can use them. the only good thing to say here is that portal and lance decks could be fun and meta worthy. as well as abilities that ready allies. in other decks, they are less viable than they were at 4items/abilities on summon.
Last edited by Veles; 11-08-2017 at 10:27 PM.
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Upon further review this change to vermin and sorcerer feels like a nerf to them. I didn't read everyone's posts sorry if I'm beating a dead horse. The come into play ability made the useable. Now they need to be on the board for a turn. Compare those come into play disable cards vs the activated ones, huge difference in use and playability it's action is guaranteed. This will not improve things as intended, they have a turn to deal with the threat. Most decks aren't capable to hasting it. A simple disable puts a stop to using it(if skervox was what everyone was complaining about, guess what he can disable pretty easy, even with the nerf). Please reconsider this. I'd rather keep them in their current state or add locations to the list and keep it 4.
Wulven class also needs the Brax issue looked at. They suffer in the meantime.
Who ever said soul reaper is right. Which is why I use it. I've said before it has the potential to be the most powerful card in the game. Prax mill would die though.
That undead armor too. Too cheap and easy. No prevention, and extremely relevant in current meta.
Seek wisp guy, everyone gets hot when shard zal is played, cuz it's too quick and easy, well this guy is as fast and way more versatile.
Last edited by Dvsklown; 11-09-2017 at 01:56 AM.
I like the introduction of versatile counterplay in SoE and Vermin. Apart of that I dont understand the heavy emphazis on Skrevox, its only 1 NPE deck out of many.
If thats about that 3dy dude, I understand it even less. The only thing he did is apply the old millstallker build on Skrevox. Its not the first time someone made it high with an NPE deck(Nookie did that all the time for years with millstallker). Its neither new, nor especially strong or impressive that it would require to nerf Skrevox into oblivion.
I am not rly sure about the loom change, while I like the idea its kind of a bad card now. You can use it 3x and have to spend 2 CC for both players drawing a card. Imo its either keep 2 cost and draw only for yourself (makes it an additional draw engine that coule be used by many decks). High CC cost dont stop cancerdecks anyway since they accumulate insane amound of ressources realy quick.
About the new ability, I welcome the change to 2 allies if you reduce the cost to 3SE. The old ability is awfull outside of stall so tweaking it sounds like a thing worth trying.
Last edited by AmberFade; 11-09-2017 at 03:44 AM.
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Can we please stop changing and tweaking card that people have payed for? Also can we please stop trying to force people to play similar decks (e.g., strong tribal synergies, or strongly encouraging very ally-heavy builds)?
Stall is fine. It's hard to play, and hard to play against. That is good, it makes the game less boring.
It's stupid, sov is enough to take down the rain and win. ppl just don't take even 1 of that card.
Maybe sorcerer can be shuffeled to deck instead bounced to hand?
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I think that sorc returning to hand after a use of his abi its a drawback, not an adbantage!
If he stayed on board he could use his abi next turn if survived, but he will return to hand not being able to do so.
Why you find returning to hand so good to say is too strong?
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I think you are overhyping SoE a lil bit, imo the old version was stronger. His new ability is only a real deal if he gets hasted, else he has to survive the turn to be able to use it. If we look at good decks its highly unlikely anyone who has 3 items out will let him alive uncontested. Kinda reminds me of Twillight Ritualist.
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