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  1. #51
    Senior Member tolerance's Avatar
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    The idea is to go back to deck builder and rethink your deck. Stop seeing cards as tech but as staple to counter situations you may face.
    If I focus my deck to strengthen my own win con and ignore others’ strategies so much, then I must accept the lost if this deck running into decks that I don’t bring an answer to interact with

  2. #52
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    So much drama. Lets sum things up to have more clear picture:

    1. From the moment I came to this game (sth like 2 and 1/4 years ago) there existed many stall cards as if devs took some great joy in them. So I think they are enough - don't make more. Many of these cards make gameplay more interesting, so it s not that bad situation. Yet their numbers now are by far enough already.

    2. The main problem with stall decks with all discussion in SE community can be described as "decks causing Negative Player Experience by game being overly one-sided (in comparison to rush mages - this time also being very time consuming)". Stall decks as a genre can be described as "the extreme end of control decks - swinging the game to their advantage the longer game drags on, oftentimes lacking other win conditions". These decks are (no matter order of appearance): Stallvox, Stall Zhanna, Stall Vess, Stall Ter Adun, Stall Gwenneth, Stall Zaladar, Mill Praxix, Moonstaller, Millstalker, Lay Low Lance, Stall Embers Jerycho, Trap Victor and VoW mages (quite numerous these decks in fact) - some of these may not strictly be classified as "stall playstyle" but definitely all of them using stall tactics to a vast extent.

    3. Stall deck "problem" came to light in such strenght just now. People did often have negative attitude and prejudice to these kind of tactics for as long as I am here though (e.g. banning in pop-ups, negative Moonstaller and Stallvox references etc.). What has happened for such drama now?
    - over 2 years back there were like 3 more "widely-known" stall decks (Millstalker, Moonstaller, Stallvox and Mill Praxix - that s actually 4 but they were just SO rare I could as well count first 2 as 1). These decks were only played by dedicated seldom die-hards as they required expert handling and long play times. Meeting such decks was rare occurance. They were merely noticed to exist and largely ignored, treated as "oddity" (even Mill Praxix remained as exotic, unknown territory till around like January 2016 - good old times, huh? );
    - over these years some new stall decks emerged, existing ones got mature and perfected - more efficient;
    - as such more people taken up playing them;
    - as such the more such decks were being noticed and more players were getting into exploring play with such decks - these effects snowballed and fuelled one another;,
    - more people got butthurt by such decks and tactics - growing in resentments;
    - last but not least (and imo far from being main reason) Vermin and Soccerer of Endia were nerfed quite recently making the conditions for stally decks and tactics (that typically require to be item-heavy) more favourable.

    So now suddenly we have it - a big stall deck crisis, people already starting to despair and bash "fresh" lead developer Gondorian and the newly elected Board, tensions rising. Now, what can be done about it? Personally I find Demnchi's proposition the best - not revert old Vermin and Soccerer of Endia (for the exact reasons he stated) but rework them in such a way they become less strong (not count attachments and get exiled on use - both at a time!). Also maybe they could count support abilities for their effects to trigger instead?! Then observe meta with them, but also the effects of LL2 new cards on stall decks and their use.

    P.S.
    Don t trust Fristar on this matter, he s biased af - plays mostly Stall Vess and wanted A Legend Rises nerfed to be able to run rampant his favourite deck with less proper counters.
    Last edited by LeonTheBarbarian; 11-04-2017 at 03:11 PM.

  3. #53
    Member Fenelon's Avatar
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    Solution to limit stall : boost ravager and make them a strong tribe (I don't say that because I love them).

    For example :
    2cc shadow artifact : If your opponent controls at least 4 items/abilities, friendly ravagers allies can use their ability the turn they are summonend

    That artefact is mainly to allow to use Demolitionnist ability without risking him to be killed before. Sometimes, destroying just a rain delay at the good moment can give you the win.

    4cc Ravager ally Summon ability : if you control a ravager ally, destroy an ability or an item with cost 2 or less"
    First I was thinking that allow could destroy ability or item of cost 3 or less but I think it would be very OP (remove BF for exemple), so 2 can be fine. The synergy with Cleric can be very nice. But if we limit cost of card destroyed to be 2 or less, he can't target Crucible.


    I think if we are creative we can find a lot of way to have card of synergy that can help to make games against stall less NPE. But we have work to do!

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenelon View Post
    Solution to limit stall : boost ravager and make them a strong tribe (I don't say that because I love them).

    For example :
    2cc shadow artifact : If your opponent controls at least 4 items/abilities, friendly ravagers allies can use their ability the turn they are summonend

    That artefact is mainly to allow to use Demolitionnist ability without risking him to be killed before. Sometimes, destroying just a rain delay at the good moment can give you the win.

    4cc Ravager ally Summon ability : if you control a ravager ally, destroy an ability or an item with cost 2 or less"
    First I was thinking that allow could destroy ability or item of cost 3 or less but I think it would be very OP (remove BF for exemple), so 2 can be fine. The synergy with Cleric can be very nice. But if we limit cost of card destroyed to be 2 or less, he can't target Crucible.


    I think if we are creative we can find a lot of way to have card of synergy that can help to make games against stall less NPE. But we have work to do!
    an idea to limit stall that does not involve nerfing anything, i love it

  5. #55
    Senior Member Offspring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmberFade View Post
    Just revert the SoE/Vermin nerfs that will solve the issue (maybe excluding attachments). They have been a decent tool to limit NPE in quickmatch before and their nerfs were bullshit peddaled by people who have no idea about balance.
    I completely agree with this.
    I hate nerfing cards, so what about buffing, or "un nerfing" them?
    Giving players more anti stall options should be enough, and also open possibilities for new decks (or the return of old ones).
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  6. #56
    Senior Member tolerance's Avatar
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    I donít like the idea of flexible fraction cards being an ally and conditional item destruction at the same time in the first place, it makes ppl lazy to think lol

  7. #57
    Member Fenelon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tolerance View Post
    I don’t like the idea of flexible fraction cards being an ally and conditional item destruction at the same time in the first place, it makes ppl lazy to think lol
    My idea is to make Ravagers the anti item tribe of the game. It is already a part of its core with allies Like Vermin, Demolitionnist or a card lisk Obelisk. Make this tribe stronger and more played can help to a better meta.

    The ally I propose have 2 weakness :
    he needs a friendly ravager ally on the board, so his ability must a dedicated deck (even if feasterling is strong and can be used by manyall shadow decks. That is a little but less true with Hulk).
    his stats (1/5 for 4 cc) are crap. But ravager have item that can easly boost him. So again you need a dedicated deck for him to be very effective

    Limit the value of destroyed item to 2 or less limit his impact on the game. Against many decks it will just be a bad card in hand.

    So to summarize : I think to have a good tribe really dedicated in item destruction can be fine. It would reinforce its identity.

  8. #58
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    Reduce cost of item/ability destruction...
    Most item/ability destruction cards are a waste of tempo. They should come cheaper, or they should come as a passive/active ability of more cards.

  9. #59
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    Why just dont limit anything...we know how this goes...yesterday was aggro today stall and tomorow control will be something scary that is ruin the game.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Spartan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwertzy View Post
    Why just dont limit anything...we know how this goes...yesterday was aggro today stall and tomorow control will be something scary that is ruin the game.
    What about restoring or buffing aggro a bit? Many players would like that possibility. It would add to the variety of the game.
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