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  1. #1
    Community Manager SEF Mango's Avatar
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    Define "Stall" For Me (pop up related question)

    Yoyo,

    Hero: Vess

    Only allies are 4x Marksman and 3x Veteran. Rest of deck is attachments, armor weapons.

    Is that a stall deck?

    In pop up, we say "12 allies minimum" so for this Vess deck... I can just add 5 more allies and boom, no longer stall?

    I hate limiting people's available decks. I will never allow full stall though because people play pop up hoping for relatively quick games.

    Anyhow, I want to hear EXACTLY what everyone thinks constitutes a "Stall" deck.

    Thank you.

  2. #2
    Chat Mod Ross013's Avatar
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    Stall is a control deck with not much of a win con outside deckout fatigue. The deck you described in the OP would be considered control if weapons are involved. You can't really attribute things like ally count as being things that dictate Stall, as you can have quite aggressive solo decks.

    Even cards like rain delay can find their place in non stall control decks (rain delay to let you play a threat against a particularly sticky board giving you a chance to set up the following turn with removal/more threat to help you contest the board)

    In short, stall is a form of control that doesn't have an active win condition, and is not strictly attributed to things like ally count and cards used

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  3. #3
    Chat Mod Kip thorp's Avatar
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    Normally I don't talk with fruit, but the Mango brings up a ever unanswered question.
    So I will answer the fruit, and hopefully make a bit of sence.

    As Mango well knows the ban on Stall decks was implemented years ago, basically during the Millstalker time, then cam Praxis, or control Vic, or a few more I can't even remember, there are quite few more, but they are decks that can draw the game out forever. That was the NPE.
    The games took up to 45 minutes, that's a long time in a pop up which is supposed to faster.

    But now there are cards that completely wreck stall and control decks, the problem is nobody Tech's for these consistantly , hence if you got nothing (like ground shift) your in trouble. But Stall decks are as bad as control decks as I'm concerned, so I think most pop ups should be open to any deck.

    The game has grown , the cards are there to tech vs any deck, it's up to you as the pilot to choose wisely.
    I think it's about time our pop ups grow w the game.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Veles's Avatar
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    Yeah, instead of vague rules that do not cover all deck diversity you should have actual list of decks that are banned if you want to be precise:

    Moonstaller, Stallvox, Freeze Mage, (Semi)Solo Warrior..

    I guess issue with this is you can still build some wacky stuff like trap based Banebow...So maybe just focus on the worst offenders?
    Last edited by Veles; 09-06-2017 at 07:28 AM.

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  5. #5
    Chat Mod Ross013's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    Yeah, instead of vague rules that do not cover all deck diversity you should have actual list of decks that are banned if you want to be precise:

    Moonstaller, Stallvox, Freeze Mage, (Semi)Solo Warrior..

    I guess issue with this is you can still build some wacky stuff like trap based Banebow...So maybe just focus on the worst offenders?
    Strictly speaking, wulven sponsored events are supposed to be as unrestricted as possible, so having a list of decks/cards that are banned is not the way to go about it.

    It's simply: if it's a control deck, does it have a win condition (fat allies, weapons, direct damage)? If the answer is No, it's probably stall.

    The only grey area I could see from that is mill prax with All Hope is Lost, but that can win quicker than a lot of decks anyway so it wouldn't be a problem

    Personally I don't see why any playstyle should be banned, because the argument of 'time saving' covers any deck that isn't aggressively playing allies by turn 4/5. Not only That, you can have very time consuming games just because the decks and pilots are exceptional.

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  6. #6
    Senior Member Spartan's Avatar
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    Since there is no official definition of what a stall deck, is ill try to give you mine as i perceive it with my limited experience on this game.

    A stall deck is trying to minimise opponets actuall play while in the same time trying to put its own victory conditions in play. Cards often used in this builds are for example RD, Lay Low, into the forest. Other use an inreased amount of cards to make opponents game obsolete like "bang your head on a refrigerator when you face" Vess build

    I think there is a possibility to harm pop ups popularity if those kind of decks are allowed in popups. I have never heard a sigle complaint since im on TG for the decks used in popups. Its a fun format that people seem to enjoy when playing at them. If those kind of decks are allowed some people who dont like those decks (myself included) might not find anymore popup play to be so apealling as it is now.
    Popups is a fast and fun tournament to play and its keeping player base happy especially since support is super fast with the delivery of earned prizes. Every tournament has its own rules, so why not popups? I believe they are fine the way they are now, so why fix something that it doesnt seem broken.

  7. #7
    Senior Member qaz92zaq's Avatar
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    My rule of thumb is simply does the deck aim to end to game before t12?

    I'm very against a strict definition on stall because then those rules can be gamed and the more important thing is that the average game fall in the 10 - 15 minute range for the sake of fininshing pop ups in a reasonable amount of time.

  8. #8
    Senior Member tolerance's Avatar
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    I remember somewhere in the forum mentioned Wulven sponsored pop up should not limit play style.
    But I can understood the host and participants do not want to wait for long game to be finished
    Maybe there can be a rules to limit the game time to 5 or 10 min each

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