Reducing Max Deck Size to 80 Cards + Hero in QM

[Nijjis]

I voted "other". I feel the number of cards in a deck to be arbitrary to an extent. The only decks that truly benefit from a larger card count are stall/mill decks. All others CAN do it, and benefit very marginally from an "alternate win condition" (If you don't lose before your opponent, you end up winning when they deck out) but those decks will generally get beat out by more streamlined decks (as evidenced by Shadowman in last WC*). I don't even feel larger decks are NPE. I played against Shadowman many times, and never felt that his deck sizes removed any enjoyment from our games. Just made them different. That being said, I don't see any difference between an 80 card deck and a 120 card deck. I believe the better option would be limiting at 60. This would allow stall/mill to still exist, but make the games considerably shorter.

*I consider the 60 card Vic deck that won to be a non-entity, since you nerfed Victor to hell

Lol I remember playing against shadowman fairly often... I can't remember if he actually ever ran me out of cards, if he did it didn't happen often. Generally if he won it was just by playing good cards on curve and ramping up resources with IGG. The deck size was definitely not the main problem. The main problem (besides the fact that he's a skilled player) was whether he found IGG and I wasnt packing removal. I think I played him using praxix and was a little bummed that one of my win conditions was removed.

[Nijjis]

I think one of the best things that could be done to reduce game time would be implement some sort of system to stop shitters from wasting your time. When my opponent rage quits by closing out the app instead of conceding defeat I have to wait something like 4 minutes for the game to resolve... I think it takes about 1 minute sometimes for the disconected clock to even appear and then about 3 minutes more for me to get the win.

Also you get more time for each move you make meaning you can potentially make each turn last way too long. I like the system as is (get more seconds after a move) but it needs to have a cap of 2:15 or so.

Now onto the topic... I'm not sure i feel very strongly either way bud. Sorry gondo :X

[Nijjis]

Games will in fact last longer on average with bigger decks just by the law of averages. Here's what I mean... Some games end due to a deck out. This doesn't happen super often but the bigger the deck size the less often this will happen. It probably follows a bell curve id be willing to bet. As as long as control / stall / mill isn't super meta this should be almost a non issue for highly skilled players. It will definitely have a more dramatic effect on less skilled players...

I can't tell you how many times I've seen one of my poor/er opponents sacrifice up to 10 resources just to end up with 0 cards in hand... I always explain to these players the tenets of less is more, I will say something like: if you keep drawing cards you can't use your deck is too big. Always try to stick to 40 cards, focus almost entirely on good cards you will actually use.. like strong allies, a decent amount of ally removal 4-8. Item removal 0-4, card draw 8-10, and direct damage cards like weapons or spells. Once you have some experience and a solid nucleus of almost entirely these cards eventually you will figure out what tech to fill out your deck with.

[Shadow Mann]

I've been away a bit, but I hate this change...most prefer smaller deck sizes anyway and having a larger deck would be viewed by most as a disadvantage so the reduction to max deck size wasn't necessary.

[Shadow Mann]

dang poll was split and had more "no" than "yes"...yet it was changed?

[Gondorian]

dang poll was split and had more "no" than "yes"...yet it was changed?

I don't expect you to read the whole thread, so I'll put one quote here, but there is definitely more information in the thread if you are interested:

Thanks for all the input into this. The poll result ended up pretty split, yet there were no compelling reasons made not to make the change and the stats collected from the live server support making it, so this change will go live in October.

[Shadow Mann]

I'll read the entire thread later when I have more time, but I doubt I'll stick with SE...being able to go with my MONSTER deck and have the challenge of being consistent with a huge deck was what kept it fun for me. I guess I'll have to see what the "stats collected" were to make the change necessary.

[Shadow Mann]

Ill copy my question from 60 thread here as well:

What deck type is only possible to make with more than 80 cards that is not possible to make with 80 or less?

What diversity are you talking about?

An ally heavy 120 Boris is a midrange deck just as 40 cards Boris.
A 120 cards Stallvox is a stall deck just as 80 cards stallvox.
And so on...

I think for the game it is better that deckbuilding involves some tough decisions in choosing which allies are truly worthy to put in, how much tech cards can you allow yourself to put in the deck, how much removal is optimal to control the board but not make your draws be dead when you need to pressure the board state...For me that thoughprocess is much more fun than "oh look how big number by my deck is..."

The philosophy fuck it Ill just put all of them is silly to me and it lessens deckbulding strategy and skill not enhance it.

If you think building a larger deck and being successful with it just involves throwing everything in the deck, you've never used a Max card deck successfully.

[Shadow Mann]

My fear is that reducing to 80 will disappoint the fat deck lovers but not satisfy the slim deck lovers.

Spot on...best quote I've read so far

[Shadow Mann]

Thanks for all the input into this. The poll result ended up pretty split, yet there were no compelling reasons made not to make the change and the stats collected from the live server support making it, so this change will go live in October.

Well...thanks for the quote, but I don't see any "stats collected" that justify keep making SE like all other card games. I can play a 40 card deck competitively with any hero and I'm sure 81 would work fine either, but I see nothing to show why this change was made, of course I'm only on page 6 atm