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Thread: Shadow Tokens

  1. #191
    Senior Member Buqs's Avatar
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    i have two originating sources of shadow tokens, purchased some and some from kickstarter backer. i only have one account they are all in yet i receive two emails letting me know how much SC i get each day. since i only have one pool of tokens is there anyways to reduce the emails i receive to one?


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  2. #192
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buqs View Post
    i have two originating sources of shadow tokens, purchased some and some from kickstarter backer. i only have one account they are all in yet i receive two emails letting me know how much SC i get each day. since i only have one pool of tokens is there anyways to reduce the emails i receive to one?
    Please can you email Kyle about that since it's done by shadowtoken.io which we don't admin yet.

  3. #193
    Senior Member Jao's Avatar
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    So do Token Holders own 100% of Shadow Era or 60%?
    If Token Holders are now shareholders, does that mean the present BoD can be forced out by majority of Token Holders' vote?
    The profit-sharing scheme is still paid out in Shadow Token. If the value of ST falls, there will be no "profit." How can ST price rise if there is no demand for it? Currently, there is no use for ST aside from giving an all-foil deck to the top 100 holders.
    Why create Shadow Token at all when there's BTC and other stable altcoins you can already use to sell shares of the game? Without ST, the shareholders' payout would be in BTC or other altcoin, which is more infinitely useful as a trading currency because of the demand.
    There is talk of a trust fund being managed. I don't understand that. Who runs that and what is it for?
    Currently, I have seen no contract legally binding Kyle to uphold his end of the bargain here. For example, if I were to buy all the Shadow Tokens on public sale, that would make me the majority token holder and supposedly, owner of the game. But how can that be when token holders have no direct control over the BoD? It is the BoD who proposes, and the token holders just vote. And the voting system is shitty. To vote, you have to use your Shadow Tokens.

    From my current understanding, there is no attractive reason to buy ST. Am I missing something?
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  4. #194
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Shadow Tokens

    Quote Originally Posted by Jao View Post
    So do Token Holders own 100% of Shadow Era or 60%?
    If Token Holders are now shareholders, does that mean the present BoD can be forced out by majority of Token Holders' vote?
    The profit-sharing scheme is still paid out in Shadow Token. If the value of ST falls, there will be no "profit." How can ST price rise if there is no demand for it? Currently, there is no use for ST aside from giving an all-foil deck to the top 100 holders.
    Why create Shadow Token at all when there's BTC and other stable altcoins you can already use to sell shares of the game? Without ST, the shareholders' payout would be in BTC or other altcoin, which is more infinitely useful as a trading currency because of the demand.
    There is talk of a trust fund being managed. I don't understand that. Who runs that and what is it for?
    Currently, I have seen no contract legally binding Kyle to uphold his end of the bargain here. For example, if I were to buy all the Shadow Tokens on public sale, that would make me the majority token holder and supposedly, owner of the game. But how can that be when token holders have no direct control over the BoD? It is the BoD who proposes, and the token holders just vote. And the voting system is shitty. To vote, you have to use your Shadow Tokens.

    From my current understanding, there is no attractive reason to buy ST. Am I missing something?
    I'm sure others have similar questions, so we should work on some clear answers to these rather than me attempt to do so on-the-fly. I count at least six for us to tackle.

    Having said that, I think it's worth pointing something out now. The transition from Kyle owning and controlling everything to the new BoD set-up with Token Holder voting is still in progress. The next major milestone is have the apps on each platform released by Shadow Era Ltd instead of Wulven Games. Please rest assured in the mean time that all income from the game since 1st August has been made available to the Board of Directors to spend how we wish.

  5. #195
    Moderator danae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jao View Post
    So do Token Holders own 100% of Shadow Era or 60%?
    If Token Holders are now shareholders, does that mean the present BoD can be forced out by majority of Token Holders' vote?
    The profit-sharing scheme is still paid out in Shadow Token. If the value of ST falls, there will be no "profit." How can ST price rise if there is no demand for it? Currently, there is no use for ST aside from giving an all-foil deck to the top 100 holders.
    Why create Shadow Token at all when there's BTC and other stable altcoins you can already use to sell shares of the game? Without ST, the shareholders' payout would be in BTC or other altcoin, which is more infinitely useful as a trading currency because of the demand.
    There is talk of a trust fund being managed. I don't understand that. Who runs that and what is it for?
    Currently, I have seen no contract legally binding Kyle to uphold his end of the bargain here. For example, if I were to buy all the Shadow Tokens on public sale, that would make me the majority token holder and supposedly, owner of the game. But how can that be when token holders have no direct control over the BoD? It is the BoD who proposes, and the token holders just vote. And the voting system is shitty. To vote, you have to use your Shadow Tokens.

    From my current understanding, there is no attractive reason to buy ST. Am I missing something?
    I'll wait for Gondorian's crafted reply to this but I'd just like to point out that with nearly all the alt-coins out there in the cryptocurrency market including Shadow Tokens, having hold of tokens/coins doesn't mean you have ownership of the company/entity backing the tokens or coins. This doesn't function like how it does with actual stocks for companies listed in the stock exchanges. If you look at Kyle's post here, you'll see he says "...a ST is not a share in anything - it's more like a voting right...". What your Shadow Token will give you is a bit more control on where the direction of the game goes and in other items that the BoD brings to token holder votes.

  6. #196
    Senior Member Jao's Avatar
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    But he just said this
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    1. Shadow Era has always been profitable, but that was the past. The new Board of Directors will make their budget going forward. Fixed operating costs are small, more than enough room for the Board to hire new developers to meet their budget.

    2. There is no "owner", the tokens represent 100% ownership of Shadow Era and it is operated by a Trust company. Profits are of course determined as income minus expenses. The Board will probably want to budget some income to be reinvested into growth for awhile to scale up.

    3. Tokens can't be generated, if the operating pool is exhausted then they must be purchased on the open market. This was intended to ensure liquidity for people wanting to sell.
    if the tokens represent 100% ownership of ShadowEra, what does that mean, esp since the tokens that went on public sale was 60%. at most, the public can own 60% of SE if i'm understanding this right. unless the tokens doesn't really represent ownership of the game, but is simply an-in game token.

    i've read the entirety of the bitcointalk thread and what i've read so far doesn't inspire confidence. the token is dead in the exchange and those who were mere investors have since cut their losses and sold what they have. the rest are holding onto theirs in the hope the token will rise in price. but how can it if there's no real demand for it?

    as i've said and accurately noticed, there is no real demand for the token. it can't be used anywhere else except in-game. and its in-game uses are mostly cosmetic. for the price to rise, you have to create demand for the token. earning daily sc when in the top 100 token holder is not enough. you need to be able to translate the token to be usable outside of the game.
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  7. #197
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    This is a direct deception of investors! I have some data Kyle, so I will not be difficult to find it!

  8. #198
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jao View Post
    But he just said this

    if the tokens represent 100% ownership of ShadowEra, what does that mean, esp since the tokens that went on public sale was 60%. at most, the public can own 60% of SE if i'm understanding this right. unless the tokens doesn't really represent ownership of the game, but is simply an-in game token.

    i've read the entirety of the bitcointalk thread and what i've read so far doesn't inspire confidence. the token is dead in the exchange and those who were mere investors have since cut their losses and sold what they have. the rest are holding onto theirs in the hope the token will rise in price. but how can it if there's no real demand for it?

    as i've said and accurately noticed, there is no real demand for the token. it can't be used anywhere else except in-game. and its in-game uses are mostly cosmetic. for the price to rise, you have to create demand for the token. earning daily sc when in the top 100 token holder is not enough. you need to be able to translate the token to be usable outside of the game.
    That's a quote from Day 1 of the ICO (1st August). Maybe it's due to a flaw of English language but I read your first sentence as he recently said that (one meaning of "just") as opposed to only said that (other meaning of "just"). Anyway, if that's what he said then that's how it's working.

    As for the bitcointalk thread, it's really not a good place to get facts or a fair outlook on the token. So many people claiming no dev progress when everyone here has seen it all on the official site and Facebook. I can't write more now because I have Regional Qualifiers to stream this weekend but I would like to return to this on Monday. Have a great weekend.

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    Senior Member WolfCyr's Avatar
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    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jao View Post
    So do Token Holders own 100% of Shadow Era or 60%?
    If Token Holders are now shareholders, does that mean the present BoD can be forced out by majority of Token Holders' vote?
    The profit-sharing scheme is still paid out in Shadow Token. If the value of ST falls, there will be no "profit." How can ST price rise if there is no demand for it? Currently, there is no use for ST aside from giving an all-foil deck to the top 100 holders.
    Why create Shadow Token at all when there's BTC and other stable altcoins you can already use to sell shares of the game? Without ST, the shareholders' payout would be in BTC or other altcoin, which is more infinitely useful as a trading currency because of the demand.
    There is talk of a trust fund being managed. I don't understand that. Who runs that and what is it for?
    Currently, I have seen no contract legally binding Kyle to uphold his end of the bargain here. For example, if I were to buy all the Shadow Tokens on public sale, that would make me the majority token holder and supposedly, owner of the game. But how can that be when token holders have no direct control over the BoD? It is the BoD who proposes, and the token holders just vote. And the voting system is shitty. To vote, you have to use your Shadow Tokens.

    From my current understanding, there is no attractive reason to buy ST. Am I missing something?

    I'm answering this as myself, not spokesman of the board as a whole.

    Q: So do Token Holders own 100% of Shadow Era or 60%?
    A: They own about 70% since 30% was not yet sold to the public because no one is buying at the price it reached during the ICO ($0.12) right now. Kyle says he is happy to hold onto them for now.

    Q: If Token Holders are now shareholders, does that mean the present BoD can be forced out by majority of Token Holders' vote?
    A: Token Holders are not shareholders, but certainly they could call for a Token Holder vote on any issue that could ultimately lead to some Board Members being removed. Several steps would be involved in this, but it is certainly possible. As it stands, no Token Holder I am aware of has called for this kind of vote.

    Q: The profit-sharing scheme is still paid out in Shadow Token. If the value of ST falls, there will be no "profit."
    A: The SHDW to be paid out has to come from somewhere, so it would be bought back from the public. If the dollar value of the profit is high and SHDW value is low then we need to buy back a lot, which is going to push the value of SHDW up due to demand. Potentially we could switch to paying profit in another crypto-currency if the SHDW approach is not practical.

    Q: How can ST price rise if there is no demand for it? Currently, there is no use for ST aside from giving an all-foil deck to the top 100 holders.
    A: It won't rise while there is no demand. We're working on several things to increase demand, but not as the primary goal. It needs to naturally increase as we make progress with development, increasing revenue and growing the player-base. Certainly, we could add more token holder perks to increase demand though and we are reviewing options there.

    Q: Why create Shadow Token at all when there's BTC and other stable altcoins you can already use to sell shares of the game? Without ST, the shareholders' payout would be in BTC or other altcoin, which is more infinitely useful as a trading currency because of the demand.
    A: Shadow Token is how we track who has invested in the game, how much % of the profit to share and the weighting of each person's voting. We could not do that without our own token. As I mentioned above, we could potentially pay out the profit in any other currency.

    Q: There is talk of a trust fund being managed. I don't understand that. Who runs that and what is it for?
    A: All assets related to Shadow Era (primarily the Intellectual Property) owned by Kyle have to go into a Trust so that the Token Holders can get benefits from them. The Trust is then managed by a Trust Company (Shadow Era Ltd) which is a legal entity, directly controlled by the Shadow Era Board of Directors and indirectly by the Token Holders.

    Q: Currently, I have seen no contract legally binding Kyle to uphold his end of the bargain here. For example, if I were to buy all the Shadow Tokens on public sale, that would make me the majority token holder and supposedly, owner of the game. But how can that be when token holders have no direct control over the BoD? It is the BoD who proposes, and the token holders just vote. And the voting system is shitty. To vote, you have to use your Shadow Tokens.
    A: The preparation of the contract has been a long process that has almost reach its conclusion. When signed, between Kyle and Shadow Era Ltd, then the remainder of the transition can happen. I would hope anyone with 5% or more of the Shadow Tokens would seek to join the Board of Directors to have more direct control over their investment. As far as I know, there is no individual with more than 2% ownership of SHDW aside from Kyle and me at the moment.

    Q: From my current understanding, there is no attractive reason to buy ST. Am I missing something?
    A: Certainly the creation of Shadow Tokens has meant that development can be resumed and we are now seeing progress there and increased revenue. Buying SHDW would mean you are playing a part in that, but let's assume you don't care that much about the game itself or its players but ultimately financial rewards. I think then you would either have to speculate based on faith in the potential of Shadow Era or wait for confirmed financials to demonstrate the kinds of returns you can get for your SHDW.

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