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  1. #1
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Have your say on balance (of SF and LL)!

    Hi, everyone!

    It's been a while since we made any balance changes, so you can expect some "soon" - though you can forget changes to CotC/DP because they are not going to happen!

    But before we finalise the SF/LL changes that will be in a future version, I figure it's worth putting a call out to see if anyone has any strong opinions on anything else besides Spirit Shuriken, Anmor's Call and Vermin/Sorcerer (ideally backed up with a good explanation/reason for that opinion). Feel free to still mention those cards here as well though!

    In light of a recent thread about underused cards, I'm willing to consider more buffs than usual to SF cards (we were just trying to restrict SF changes to those that were strictly necessary), so don't just focus on nerfs.

    Please Note: If you mention CotC/DP cards here for balance changes, you will go on my Ignore List. This is for SF/LL changes only!

    Thanks in advance for your co-operation and all the constructive discussion/ideas that you can share.

  2. #2
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    http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....-Shuriken-Nerf
    My opinion on Shuriken is in the OP of this thread
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Buqs's Avatar
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    Ascetic of Aldmor
    1/2
    0SE: Target opposing Hero loses 1 SE if its controller has resources greater than or equal to yours.
    0SE: Target opposing Hero takes 1 damage if its controller has resources greater than or equal to yours.

    or some other buff


    ----

    Spitfire Hound
    1/4

    ---

    Incendiary Curse
    2CC

    ---

    Anmors Call
    Should probably have a limit maybe based on how many resources you currently have

    ---

    Dreadclaw Totem
    When a friendly Wulven ally is killed, Dreadclaw Totem becomes a readied Wulven ally with 4 base attack, 3 health and ambush that attacks the opposing ally with the highest attack.

    ---

    Startleshell Vest
    When damage is dealt to your hero, Startleshell Vest has +3 defense until the start of your next turn.
    0: Your hero takes 1 damage
    (someone elses suggestion)

    ---

    Packmaster's Helm
    Id prefer if this did something else

    ---

    Shock Conductor
    3 damage

    ---

    Dagger of Fate
    add Ambush on discard
    EveryThing Changes

    "The difference between the possible and the impossible lies within a persons determination" -- Tommy Lasorda

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  4. #4
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    Packbeast too strong I can't believe it has avoided nerf hammer for so long. Remove the damage reduction or decrease health to 2
    Rest for the weary - make it 2cc and it is great card
    Scriptures of the departed - make it 1cc and 1 duration. Twilight need good start and there are already plenty of 2cc drops compared to which is scriptures in currrent state crap

    As for Vermin/SoE - I hope this is about adjusting Vermin as he is usable 2cc ally with good ability while SoE is mostly dead draw as he's not that good as stand-alone ally. How about changing vermin to sustain SE?
    Shuriken - leave it as it is
    Anmor - if you have to nerf it, make it 2 allies per turn

    Cof - you killed this card even, people switched to Wotf (surprise, surprise, I was saying that). can you at least make it draw cards as soon as you cast attachment?
    Last edited by dejvo; 02-01-2017 at 06:56 PM.
    I milled fat Garth with rush Loest. Twice.
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    I played Ter with monopoly cards and 4x toll bridge and managed to win a tournament.
    I cast Portal and Kris in one turn and lived to tell the tale.

  5. #5
    Chat Mod Ross013's Avatar
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    Can we change embers?

    I think it would be better in its older form, but not able to target the opposing hero. This allows it to be used as a solid control tool, and still stops the stall decks having a built in win condition. Its possible to add a ping to the controllers hero as well, which adds a downside and mitigates the healing buff from lingering essence.


    I would also like to see the 'if you control an ally' condition removed from the bigger they are/the harder they fall. Opening up control to more classes is something I feel is important. Almost every class/hero can play aggressively, but only a handful can do control, and do it well. Opening these 2 cards up gives a solid tool for both factions to use, and allow control to be much more of a thing


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  6. #6
    Senior Member Umbra7's Avatar
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    Shattered fates buffs are being considered? This is wonderful news! I'd like to re-submit my idea for slingblade demon then http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....939#post596939

    Anyways, shattered fates suggestions (barring vermin of endia, shuriken, and anmors call)

    Ascetic of aldmor:
    Something could be done right? 1 more health maybe? Since all aldmor seem to be high health with lowish attack.

    slingblade demon lose unique, add steadfast

    Infernus, tyrant of the damned
    Why does he not increase damage against opposing heros too? Both Alysa and voltars ring increase the damage against opposing heros, and infernus is much harder to keep sticking to the board. Fatties already have a hard time, why do we keep limiting them? Anyways, increase fire damage to Hero's as well, and possibly lower attack by one to compensate.

    Vosition Trader
    2/5 and attack increases by 2 when an item is summoned

    stardust ampliflyer (who decided to spell it that way?)
    Make it a 3/6. Since his main purpose is to boost your other allies, it doesn't make sense for him to have high attack for reduced survivability. Giving him a little more health makes his survival chance just a little higher, which might start letting him be used

    final flourish
    Maybe let it target Hero's? Energy extraction can do it, and that card can deal up to 5 damage.

    saymehts retribution+shriek of revulsion
    I'd like to suggest them going down to 3cc. They're too expensive for 4cc. Yes, I know that it makes them strictly better than sever ties, change of fortune, AND artful squire, but these cards are overcoats and shouldn't be stopping other cards from being usable. These two cards have potential to see use, but you stick to this rule that makes never used bad cards polute other cards potential. If cotc and DP will never be changed, then please let go of that rule. (though technically artful squire can target weapons, and sever ties is neutral, so they aren't actually "strictly better" and could potentially go to 3cc without breaking that rule)

    despair maybe have it also damage the ally it was attached to, instead of discarding a card? 2 damage sounds reasonable. And last until end of your next turn, so it can be used with ravagers

    startleshell vest others have made a great suggestion, +3 defense when hero takes damage 0:cc your hero takes 1 damage

    aural battery
    Lower it's durablity, and make its active ability into a passive. Maybe 1/2 and all ability damage to opposing hero and allies is increased by 1 (permanent passive)

    voidwalkers gauntlets
    Active ability to 1SE or 1cc perhaps?

    wooden spear
    2cc weapon maybe? Or +1 attack instead of +1 attack in combat with allies

    griffoncrest dagger I think it would be cool if it was +2 attack while having fewer than 3 cards. It's a pretty tough condition to have met, and this card needs some kind of value to consider being included in a deck

    looters baton while maybe it's unrealistic, but perhaps drawing a card whenever your hero kills an ally, as opposed to specifying in combat

    flameforged scepter
    I read somewhere that it's supposed to be primarily a defensive weapon. And if that on it's own is too much, maybe also make it so you can't attack the opposing hero.
    Shadow of the Night
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  7. #7
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    Hunters gambit- reduce the cards drawn. Just about every single hunter deck runs max copies. It kills and replaces itself twice. Vic uses it what every 3rd turn if not more. It is over played because it makes flow of cards too easy. Plenty of draw with hunters.


    Rankett, Proving grounds-while not being insanely over powered, I feel that too many games are won in early turns before opponents can even do anything. The amount of quick boosts that happen early is ridiculous. More detail in a previous thread I started called raikka humo I believe.

    And please don't nerf vermin and sorcerer, they are crucial, with what limited attachment removal there is, removing their ability would throw this game into chaos.

    That's it for now
    Last edited by Dvsklown; 02-01-2017 at 10:21 PM.

  8. #8
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies so far. Some good stuff for me to get my teeth into just before midnight (here in the UK). Keep the good stuff coming, please!

  9. #9
    Senior Member highmystica's Avatar
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    I like a bunch of the ideas above! Totally down with some of the ways others suggested to strengthen underpowered cards like dread claw etc. I have no objections to you guys finalizing SF, I hope you wait a bit on finalizing the first forth of LL though.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Umbra7's Avatar
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    OK, now that my girlfriend went home, I'll do the lost land cards now.

    vigilant wisp
    The card shouldn't have been put back up to 5 health, as now it's right back to where it was previously. It's a 2cc ally that can seek, meek is NOT a good enough counterpart to warrant 5 health. (being homunculus, his attack is easy to increase, making him just fine for trying to hold the board)

    general of unaxio
    Speaking of high health cards that can seek....general is already a huge body for 5cc, well above what is standard. Plus he can seek an attachment, which has been shown to be powerful, and is well above what is standard. He very very easily can be made a 5health ally (since he no longer has the second passive to benefit from a big body) and will still be a heavily used card, but now be at least somewhat likeable. Moreover, his 2 attack is not a good balance against his 7 health, since he can seek plenty of attachments to buff his own attack high. I highly suggest making him a 2/5 and see where he is after that

    twilight sheppardess
    She isn't too bad right now, but I think it would be benefitial to rebalance her as a 2cc. Possibly a 0/5 2cc ally? This will let her work with luminary, so she come in hasted to renew resources.

    wulven traitor and wulven renegade
    Can we please just get rid of the wordy conditional ambush, and just give them ambush. Especially renegade, as he's already unique, and his ability took a hard nerf, making his use in a deck past 2 slots harder to justify.

    aldmore sentry
    His ability to give meek to opponents is offset by his lowish health. He might be kind of nice at 5 health however

    scriptures of the departed
    So if I read Kyle's list of least used cards right, then this was the only lost lands card in the bottom usage. That means every location, and rest for the weary all get used more than this? Alright, I get it, we overnerfed the twilight's. Someone said this artifact should be made 1cc, which I can agree with. However, think a better move would he to rework it into a good 3cc artifact, that way it gives Aramia something good to pull. Perhaps something like
    "friendly Twilight allies have +1health, and when a friendly Twilight ally dies on your turn, you draw a card at the end of your turn"

    Or maybe keep the durability activated one, but a little stronger. "1D: draw a card, and renew one used recource" kind of like a Twilight version of tombstone beacon, but wanting your allies to die rather than be summoned. Recourse renewal seems to make more sense with twilight's now anyways, with sheppardess already having it. Additionally, that 1 recourse renewed can be combined with sheppardess to mitigate her activation cost. A fair trade I think, for a 3cc artifact.

    moment of acquiescence
    As I said before it got buffed the first time, the draw upon destruction is unnecessary and too much value for a 1cc card. That remains true, it's still too much value for a 1cc card, and does not keep that extra draw

    gaderi:braxno citidel
    While I maintain that this card is very useful, and does not need a huge buff like others have suggested, I do think it could warrant being shuffled back into your deck, rather than being exiled. That should allow it to be amazing, without breaking it, and might let others be more interested in trying it

    ravencrest:valley of secrets
    The 2SE seek NC is too strong compared to the value this gives. However 3SE seek is too weak compared to the value. I would suggest changing the NC to something a bit more...flavorful. "2SE: target support ability is destroyed. Draw a card" perhaps? This gives it an intuitive NC to match the controller ability, that gives just enough leverage against the opponent, without completely removing the value and tempo ravencrest is supposed to provide the controller (as it currently stands, I'd honestly prefer to flip ravencrest and seek my own abilities.)

    thadeues vault
    This one is currently a two extremes location, which is going to make it hard to balance. As it stands right now, the NC is too strong. 2SE is too low, but 3SE I think is too high. The only real middle ground I can think of is to only allow it to target their own graveyard, or to find a new NC.

    ranket: proving grounds
    The NC is just about negligible. I think it should go back to reducing 2 health instead of 1. Reducing by 1 health is NOT worth 2SE, and does next to nothing to help against what this location can do. 2 health reduction actually can let the NC be used to combat the swarm of fatties.

    Lyth: Kristan's ridge
    I know it's not causing any troubles yet, and nobody is using it. Let alone complaining about it. I definitely don't want to see it nerfed yet. But I would like to call it now, that in the future, this card is going to have many nerf cries, because it is over powered. Just wanted to call it, so everybody knows that I said It first
    (remember when packbeast was first spoiled, how I said it was really powerful? Glad people are catching on now, haha.)
    Shadow of the Night
    Warrior of The Blue Phoenix
    Greatness, Reborn

    Seeker of potential, hidden from the light
    Teacher from the darkness, the Shadow of The Night
    To you I bring my knowledge, hidden from plain sight
    And write it in my blog, bringing new things to the fight


    IGN: BP Umbra Nox

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