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View Poll Results: Should Wulevn be able to tweak cards from COTC & DP

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  • Tweak, rework, buff/nerf cards from COTC and DP

    28 62.22%
  • Disagree with proposal.

    17 37.78%
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  1. #11
    The Creator Kyle's Avatar
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    Ok I'll tell you what, I'll do some number crunching early next week and report back some card usage stats. Perhaps then players can suggest potential changes or buffs. In the past we have always kept this in mind and tried to buff underused cards, but balance is an important thing and I would rather keep the game balanced rather than shake up the meta just for the sake of it or try to make money... But I do understand the points raised here.

    As for a pricing change, there are a lot of plans on the table for this, as well as new ways to spend crystals and gold. But yes I am always listening to suggestions

  2. #12
    Senior Member Leviosablade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Ok I'll tell you what, I'll do some number crunching early next week and report back some card usage stats. Perhaps then players can suggest potential changes or buffs. In the past we have always kept this in mind and tried to buff underused cards, but balance is an important thing and I would rather keep the game balanced rather than shake up the meta just for the sake of it or try to make money... But I do understand the points raised here.

    As for a pricing change, there are a lot of plans on the table for this, as well as new ways to spend crystals and gold. But yes I am always listening to suggestions
    Thank you so much for considering.
    My main pickle along with most players was dark prophecies so many cool armors and artifacts that we admit could have better costs/Abillites.
    We as a community can provide help to test.
    We only want your company to grow.
    I dont come here to be a jerk to you kyle.
    Becasue of you ive made friendships that'll last a lifetime. And for that i only voice what others wont.
    And this way you have a better product.
    You have a game that plays like no other and is super unique. Which is why i always play this game when i can and share it.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member highmystica's Avatar
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    Anyone read the dev blog? Did you even vote? There is no mystery to what wulven is doing. They even let us vote on it! Wow. This game more than any other allows for player input.

    As far as making changes do you have any suggestions for the SF or LL cards that are still open for tweaking? Are SF cards still open? Sorry you missed the debates for CotC and DP. But those cards have graduated. Think of the physical printing as a commemeration (I hope Kyle cried like I do at weddings). Besides, we don't need to resurrect the firesnake being op debate. Firesnake IS Chuck Norris - see that debate is long finished. What you suggest would amount to having all cards in perpetual beta. I'm sure Wulven's investors would love that.

    Games like MtG are now machines. You have more input in this game than the original creators of MtG probably have in that game.

    We have incredible control over the product that wulven is giving us. And there is no other game like this that is as balanced. Look at it this way ... The cards themselves are in open source community beta for a couple years. Meanwhile, Wulven can work on their actual game engine that they didn't get pre made.

    By virtue of making this game open and effectively making everyone a beta tester this game remains balanced and fun so it will likely out live any TCG that didn't start as a physical game.

    You want faster updates in content. Uh, go play MtG or something. I know ... because this game is more fun.

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Umbra7's Avatar
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    Wait, he's actually gonna consider? Don't do anything to drastic would be my suggestion. Small buffs to the never used stuff. Cost changes to things not worth using. Visit thunderstorm to 5cc armor. (maybe let hidden have their attachments targeted, at least.) cobra demon either being 3 cost, or having 6 health.

    Then make a few flavor changes, like giving fire attack to fire snake, and molten destroyer.
    DP certainly needs a touch up in terms of buffs. Outwitted at 4cc? The card is hardly even worth 2cc. Gaderi reader could probably work well as a 2/5 that deals +2 damage in combat with allies cost 4 and up. Etc.

    I don't think we should do Nerf's however. Yes, things like soul reaper and ankle breaker are over powered, but they are good starting staples for specific classes. Some cards should be allowed to remain over powered, as it gives something to build a deck around.
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  5. #15
    Devoted Fan Gondorian's Avatar
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    From reading the OP, it sounds like Levi is saying there is an issue with variety (in his experience) and that he and maybe others are not being kept interested. That's useful feedback and could be considered a problem for the business if it is affecting the bottom line.

    The proposed "solution" to this problem makes no sense to me though. There are so many many ways to tackle the issue of low variety or lack of interest - each coming with their own costs and likelihood of success. We could therefore rank them in terms of efficiency (lower cost the better) and effectiveness (how well does it achieve the goal). And even if changing old cards raises interest, does that even lead to more money for Wulven?

    If we consider the idea of making balance changes to CotC and DP, there are quite a lot of costs there - it breaks the link with physical, it can have knock-on effects on balance (maybe breaking other cards), it takes away a stable base that many players consider to be set in stone. There's also an argument for having "bad" cards - made at various points elsewhere by other designers on other games. Then we could consider how likely we will cause more variety and more interest by doing changing CotC/DP. I think it's low considering about 80% of the card pool is actually used "enough". So what will the effect on income be from this? I don't know. It depends who experiences this "problem" and whether they already have all the cards.

    I agree with Kyle and others that we should take player input, but I would much prefer to hear other "solutions" to this problem (or maybe even take a step back and ask who actually sees a problem of this kind) rather than jump the gun and think changing old cards is the way to go.

    Thanks for reading!

  6. #16
    Senior Member Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    From reading the OP, it sounds like Levi is saying there is an issue with variety (in his experience) and that he and maybe others are not being kept interested. That's useful feedback and could be considered a problem for the business if it is affecting the bottom line.

    The proposed "solution" to this problem makes no sense to me though. There are so many many ways to tackle the issue of low variety or lack of interest - each coming with their own costs and likelihood of success. We could therefore rank them in terms of efficiency (lower cost the better) and effectiveness (how well does it achieve the goal). And even if changing old cards raises interest, does that even lead to more money for Wulven?

    If we consider the idea of making balance changes to CotC and DP, there are quite a lot of costs there - it breaks the link with physical, it can have knock-on effects on balance (maybe breaking other cards), it takes away a stable base that many players consider to be set in stone. There's also an argument for having "bad" cards - made at various points elsewhere by other designers on other games. Then we could consider how likely we will cause more variety and more interest by doing changing CotC/DP. I think it's low considering about 80% of the card pool is actually used "enough". So what will the effect on income be from this? I don't know. It depends who experiences this "problem" and whether they already have all the cards.

    I agree with Kyle and others that we should take player input, but I would much prefer to hear other "solutions" to this problem (or maybe even take a step back and ask who actually sees a problem of this kind) rather than jump the gun and think changing old cards is the way to go.

    Thanks for reading!
    good points made here

  7. #17
    Senior Member Kylt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    From reading the OP, it sounds like Levi is saying there is an issue with variety (in his experience) and that he and maybe others are not being kept interested. That's useful feedback and could be considered a problem for the business if it is affecting the bottom line.

    The proposed "solution" to this problem makes no sense to me though. There are so many many ways to tackle the issue of low variety or lack of interest - each coming with their own costs and likelihood of success. We could therefore rank them in terms of efficiency (lower cost the better) and effectiveness (how well does it achieve the goal). And even if changing old cards raises interest, does that even lead to more money for Wulven?

    If we consider the idea of making balance changes to CotC and DP, there are quite a lot of costs there - it breaks the link with physical, it can have knock-on effects on balance (maybe breaking other cards), it takes away a stable base that many players consider to be set in stone. There's also an argument for having "bad" cards - made at various points elsewhere by other designers on other games. Then we could consider how likely we will cause more variety and more interest by doing changing CotC/DP. I think it's low considering about 80% of the card pool is actually used "enough". So what will the effect on income be from this? I don't know. It depends who experiences this "problem" and whether they already have all the cards.

    I agree with Kyle and others that we should take player input, but I would much prefer to hear other "solutions" to this problem (or maybe even take a step back and ask who actually sees a problem of this kind) rather than jump the gun and think changing old cards is the way to go.

    Thanks for reading!
    You are right. You are right but that's not what we want.

    We want to see an action. We want something to happen. We need a change.
    We don't care if the decision is rational and logical. Fuck that.

    You are right about OP suggestion and I too disagree with it. But that's not the point.
    You are smart and already know there's not much "solution" available for this. So you should have already guessed what these people are really asking.

    Do something.
    IGN: Kyltz

  8. #18
    Moderator danae's Avatar
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    Don't change the old cards. Focus on getting new cards out fast. As Kylt said, just do something. Move forward.

  9. #19
    Senior Member maskee's Avatar
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    Wulven need profit and current game state do not make it much. Few cards every two years? Players collect enough money to buy whole new set during that time between sets.

    I recomend to do some compromise: release a special edition of changed old cards. So basically it will be new cards, but you can use old art (to make it easier) or give them alt art if you want. Names can be same with "N" after or before name to distinguish cards from old versions. = win win situation - more cards, more profit, not necessary to kill physical game... And it can be done easily and fast :-)

    I am looking forward to "Fire Snake - N" with fire attack. And I am willing to pay for it ;-)
    fire snake.jpg
    Last edited by maskee; 01-30-2017 at 10:17 AM.
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  10. #20
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    i agree with the proposal - moreover, it will provide some interest / "new" cards / shake up the meta / keep us going until the next set for very little cost to Wulven:
    - No new art required
    - Only small code changes neeed (change costs / attack types / add tribes)
    - Little balancing needed - don't make crazy changes, but mostly small tweaks, plus you'll hear quickly if you over-do something and it's easy to revert to the previous state
    - Crowd-source the changes (rather than Gondorian working them all out) - there are good suggestions here and on the other thread for sensible changes. I'd happily contribute to this

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