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  1. #11
    Lead Developer / Designer Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satanaitis View Post
    so all in all, tourneys are run by players and i'm certain that most of serious TO's know what's better to competative scene, than any member of wulven staff, by discouraging them to create rules that makes it fun for everyone, you are destroying the scene
    Well, maybe you could get some of the serious TO's you are referring to to contact me so we can discuss this further.

    I also question your use of the word "everyone" there.

  2. #12
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    We can't ban stall/mill we only can agree that we wont use stall/mill decks for curent pop up.

  3. #13
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    What is stall I still think there should just be a turn limit because people judge me for so called using stalled even though I don't and I beat them below turn 10

  4. #14
    Senior Member Nataku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satanaitis View Post
    hm, first of all i think, allowing Millstalkers to run around would be hurtful to tourney scene, heres why:

    1. tournaments would take much longer, that might take a few players out of already a relatively small competative scene.

    2. players would either run stall or counter decks, which would make tourney meta mostly based on only two archetypes

    3. this might decentivize players to run tourneys, in competative scene where only players/guilds host tourneys, when was the last wulven hosted event? WC 2015?

    4. and overall this would take a lot of fun out of the game, because players would not have any chace to try out their unique builds in tourneys if they are particularly weak to stall

    so all in all, tourneys are run by players and i'm certain that most of serious TO's know what's better to competative scene, than any member of wulven staff, by discouraging them to create rules that makes it fun for everyone, you are destroying the scene
    Yet back before telegram and the old ways of doing pop ups the old which seems to always have more players and variety of decks with stall and mill allowed.

    Also once automated tournaments cme out I don't see wulven sponsoring pop up any more. ( bigger tournaments probs still be sponsored). So pop up will then all have the chance to meet mill/stall.

    Also the olden days pop up ppl talked to each other more and made friends while wait for the slower mill stall deck played. It made the community stronger since ppl got to know each other. Also current 8 man pop ups are basically same shit different day.
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  5. #15
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    Stall is part of the game. Doesn't matter if most people hate it, official events or sponsored should allow EVERYTHING. what is the point of a tournament if we start banning stall / mill. Why is rush control or midrange better?
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  6. #16
    Senior Member itachiuchiha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    If you ban "stall/mill" then we can't sponsor your event, I'm afraid. Part of the value we get from giving out all the SC is in having a tournament scene where people can try whatever they think might win and then that translates back to players and us being aware of what's strong and associated feedback. If you alter the meta by banning some things, then you end up not delivering much useful data to us.
    But if we start using stall/mill in pop ups its really gonna be very time consuming and as a result mostly players will not gonna join the pop up so its better we standa on our rule of pop up no mill/stall
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Daemon Rayge's Avatar
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    Maybe the best solution would be to have a maximum Deck size rule for the Pop-up instead of banning the archetyped. There are Mill and Stall that can run off 39+Hero (Otto7 has a Slimstaller. Ganjamus has a Turbo Mill Praxix), but those shouldn't end up being too much of a problem if you know how to handle the situation properly.
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  8. #18
    Chat Mod Ross013's Avatar
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    Every single tournament I've run has been no limits, and every single time we get it done smoothly. No arguments about what is what, no matchups taking excessive amounts of time. A lot of this is derived from players simply not wanting to play against these decks, but it takes away from how the game was intended, and if wulven is to sponsor tourneys, then at least they should be played as intended, and i fully stand by wulven not supporting otherwise.

    I will say however that wulven should take into consideration that special rules will make things more fun, and i think they should come up with a guideline as to what rules we can and cannot make as TO's

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  9. #19
    Senior Member AmberFade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    If you ban "stall/mill" then we can't sponsor your event, I'm afraid. Part of the value we get from giving out all the SC is in having a tournament scene where people can try whatever they think might win and then that translates back to players and us being aware of what's strong and associated feedback. If you alter the meta by banning some things, then you end up not delivering much useful data to us.
    I agree with you in theory. However the problem is that it can lead to problems in the real world and decrease the participation in Pop ups. Most players are adults with real life obligations and want pop ups to get done in a reasonable time frame. However one troll(and there will be always some) is enough to ruin it for everyone. The problem are not mill and stall decks per se, but possible decks who stall for no reason(no clear win conditions except to stall) but to waste peoples time. There must be a way to restrict people from doing this, since if thats not the case I personally would play less pop ups since I cant spend 6 hours on a popup because some troll has 1 hour long Skrevox stall games. You should consider the human factor when discussing rules, not only balance philosophy.

    Stall and Mill is already allowed in big tournaments, but there are practical reasons why most people ban them in pop ups.
    Last edited by AmberFade; 09-19-2016 at 05:00 PM.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member itachiuchiha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmberFade View Post
    I agree with you in theory. However the problem is that it can lead to problems in the real world and decrease the participation in Pop ups. Most players are adults with real life obligations and want pop ups to get done in a reasonable time frame. However one troll(and there will be always some) is enough to ruin it for everyone. The problem are not mill and stall decks per se, but possible decks who stall for no reason(no clear win conditions except to stall) but to waste peoples time. There must be a way to restrict people from doing this, since if thats not the case I personally would play less pop ups since I cant spend 6 hours on a popup because some troll has 1 hour long Skrevox stall games. You should consider the human factor when discussing rules, not only balance philosophy.

    Stall and Mill is already allowed in big tournaments, but there are practical reasons why most people ban them in pop ups.
    Agree man Full agree
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