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  1. #1
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    Discussion for the Standardized Rules for Pop up

    Hi guys, some of you may know me as one of the occasional hosts for popups. Most popups run smoothly. There aren't too many things that can go wrong anyway. But one problem that I have observed is that the interpretation of rules for each host is different. This leads to disputes between participants and even if they accept that the decision made by the host, they might still disagree internally and leave on a bad note.

    This is the usual rules that I use in my popups. I think most host uses the same, unless they want to use a Special Rule (like only Shadow heroes etc.)


    1- Best of 3. [Deck lock]
    2- Single Elimination
    3- Best of 3 for all rounds, random start in game 1 and 3.
    4- Draws or sync errors are treated the same: Replay.
    5- If a player is disconnected during a game, the victory goes to the other player unless both players agree to replay or a player concedes.
    6- Match results must be reported in tournament Telegram channel.
    7- If there are players who get a BYE, they need to send a PM with their Hero choices to the TO on Telegram before round 1 starts
    8- Stall/Mill decks are not allowed.

    If here is a bug in the game, the game must be restarted unless both player agree to continue. Repeating bugs for the 3rd time will result in a lost for the player which the bug originated from.


    So an explanation on rule number 8. That rule is included in popups because we want popups to last as quickly as possible and stall/mill decks drag the game so much that usually the other participants have to wait for the games to finish resulting in many delays, hence defeating the purpose of popups.

    The biggest problem that i encounter every other popup i host/participate, will have a rule dispute on rule 8. So what decks are considered stall? what cards are considered stall? Can a card be considered as stall if it is not used to stall? What if my main win con is not to stall but when facing a certain matchup the best way is to play stall? So maybe in round 1 I play in a nonstall manner, but round 2 because of matchup, the only way for me to win is to stall?

    These are just some of the questions I can think of regarding that 1 simple yet complicated rule, and every host will have a different answer to the different rules. I understand that this rule is rather subjective, however I would like to see a standardised interpretation of it so that disputes can be easily settled.
    Shikyo Kira - Seraph of the Night Angels
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  2. #2
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    Voice of winter is always stall,shadow font in moonstalker is stall,itf,lay low and rain delay is always stall.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Satanaitis's Avatar
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    how about disconnects when there was a clear winner?
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  4. #4
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    I think you should take a win.

  5. #5
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    Sometimes there isn't a clear winner. Like a control deck that has survived the early aggression and has low hp but has control of the board. Nearly any card can be lethal, and you don't know if you will draw that lethal card, or it will be discarded, or countered but some control cards. So in that situation you probably will win, but then your opponent will still have hope that you didn't draw those control cards or, that you will not mill his lethal card etc, and will play to the end. Hence the drawn out game.

    Sorry if I'm rambling a little, I dunno how to articulate myself well
    Shikyo Kira - Seraph of the Night Angels
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  6. #6
    Chat Mod Ross013's Avatar
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    I think everybody should be free to host how they want, but this stall/mill thing is getting stupid. As a host you should either have a very clear idea of what your rules are and stick to them, or save the hassle and not ban anything. As a player you should respect the TO's judgement, if you don't like the outcome, the simple thing to do is to not participate in future events hosted by said TO.

    If you ask my opinion, banning any archetype is dumb. It takes away from the game and makes less of a competition. People argue that there's a time constraint, yet most popups state 1hr per round, which is more than enough for an outcome to most matchups.

    I think we should play the game as intended, and not ban things for dumb reasons, but again, that comes down to the freedom to choose your rules as a host. I don't ban anything for my popups unless its a special rule, which is usually a set/cardtype ban

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  7. #7
    Lead Developer / Designer Gondorian's Avatar
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    If you ban "stall/mill" then we can't sponsor your event, I'm afraid. Part of the value we get from giving out all the SC is in having a tournament scene where people can try whatever they think might win and then that translates back to players and us being aware of what's strong and associated feedback. If you alter the meta by banning some things, then you end up not delivering much useful data to us.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Satanaitis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shikyo Kira View Post
    Sometimes there isn't a clear winner. Like a control deck that has survived the early aggression and has low hp but has control of the board. Nearly any card can be lethal, and you don't know if you will draw that lethal card, or it will be discarded, or countered but some control cards. So in that situation you probably will win, but then your opponent will still have hope that you didn't draw those control cards or, that you will not mill his lethal card etc, and will play to the end. Hence the drawn out game.

    Sorry if I'm rambling a little, I dunno how to articulate myself well
    well yes, sometimes there isn't a clear winner, that's why to rule specifies: DC's are replay, (unless there was a clear winner).

    Here's a situation: I was playing in a tourney that said simply "standard rules". It was a boris mirror, in the late game i was at 20 something hp, my opp was at 12 hp, his board was clear, he didn't even had his draw engine and had no cards in hand, i had 5 cards in hand, 5 shadow energy, nothing in play except BF and DC'd on my turn, before playing a singe card.

    Now, even, if i was on the losing side, i would consider this a clear winner situation.
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  9. #9
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    People need to define what stall is I think stall should be going over a turn limit because I have beat guys with my frost deck in 8 turns is that stalling ?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Satanaitis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    If you ban "stall/mill" then we can't sponsor your event, I'm afraid. Part of the value we get from giving out all the SC is in having a tournament scene where people can try whatever they think might win and then that translates back to players and us being aware of what's strong and associated feedback. If you alter the meta by banning some things, then you end up not delivering much useful data to us.
    hm, first of all i think, allowing Millstalkers to run around would be hurtful to tourney scene, heres why:

    1. tournaments would take much longer, that might take a few players out of already a relatively small competative scene.

    2. players would either run stall or counter decks, which would make tourney meta mostly based on only two archetypes

    3. this might decentivize players to run tourneys, in competative scene where only players/guilds host tourneys, when was the last wulven hosted event? WC 2015?

    4. and overall this would take a lot of fun out of the game, because players would not have any chace to try out their unique builds in tourneys if they are particularly weak to stall

    so all in all, tourneys are run by players and i'm certain that most of serious TO's know what's better to competative scene, than any member of wulven staff, by discouraging them to create rules that makes it fun for everyone, you are destroying the scene
    Ĉon Of Harmony,
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