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  1. #1
    Junior Member C.D.K.'s Avatar
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    Building Bloodfang

    OK so as some may know I'm a noob at Shadow Era. I'm in the process of building my first deck and its a Bloodfang one. Its not done by any means and not set in stone (obviously) so I'd like to get some input as to how I can improve what I've got so far and basically how have I done so far. So here's what's in it:

    Bloodfang

    4 Pack Wolf
    4 Infernal Gargoyles
    2 Bad Wolf
    4 Wulven Predator
    4 Wulven Scout
    3 Dread Wolf
    2 Wulven Tactician
    2 Griptooth

    3 Shriek of Vengeance
    3 Now You're Mine
    3 Extra Sharp
    3 Unstoppable
    3 Captured Prey
    3 Speedstrike
    4 Regeneration
    3 Full Moon
    3 What Big Teeth

    This is what I've tweaked it to so far. I haven't tried this iteration yet but previous ones I found were too light on Allies. I played a match where I drew nearly nothing but Abilities so I couldn't do anything most of the match. I also tried to pick Allies that I though would compliment Bloodfang's ability with them having claw attack and good health. Also since he will allow me to summon them at no cost, I felt that could allow me to make good use of Shriek of Vengeance. Anyways I'd really like some feedback
    Last edited by C.D.K.; 07-03-2016 at 08:26 PM.

  2. #2
    Europe Regional (Winter 2012) Champion jacqui's Avatar
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    no 3 Shriek of Vengeanceicon
    no 3 Extra Sharpicon
    no 3 Unstoppableicon
    no 3 Captured Preyicon
    no 3 Speedstrikeicon
    no 4 Regenerationicon
    no 3 Full Moonicon
    no 3 What Big Teethicon

    That'll get you started.

  3. #3
    Junior Member C.D.K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacqui View Post
    no 3 Shriek of Vengeanceicon
    no 3 Extra Sharpicon
    no 3 Unstoppableicon
    no 3 Captured Preyicon
    no 3 Speedstrikeicon
    no 4 Regenerationicon
    no 3 Full Moonicon
    no 3 What Big Teethicon

    That'll get you started.
    Extra Sharp and Unstoppable I can understand and really they were added at first to make the 30 card mark when I first started building the deck. But what's your reasoning behind the rest?

  4. #4
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    You don't need that much item destruction in shriek, 3x captured prey isn't needed because of the now you are mines, not enough weapons for speed strike, what big teeth isn't a great weapon, full moon is too expensive to be played most of the time. Those are the reasons to drop them in my opinion. Maybe 1 shriek and maybe 1 or 2 lay lye nexus should be plenty of item destruction.

  5. #5
    Senior Member qaz92zaq's Avatar
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    I'm just going to start with a few basic principles.

    1) In general keep your deck as close to 39 cards + Hero as you possibly can.

    2) Keep in mind a balance resourse curve

    3) Build your deck partly around your hero ability

    4) Adequate card draw

    So now let's go back to (1) and Jaqui's long list of cards to cut all of which I would instantly agree with except CP and I'll trust his judgement on that one. You want your deck to be as small as possible meaning you need to figure out the ideal way for Bloodfang to win a game. Well Blodfang's ability is based around allies so that is likely a good place to start looking in terms of ultimately winning. In fact you said a problem with your previous versions was

    I haven't tried this iteration yet but previous ones I found were too light on Allies. I played a match where I drew nearly nothing but Abilities so I couldn't do anything most of the match.
    So first thing to note about that list is
    What Big Teeth and Speed Strike don't really fit in with a general win through allies theme. 1 damage or even 2 a turn is not enough to really control the board for you allies and you have no way of making you weapon do more so it doesn't really do much for you.

    Those 2 cuts should bring you to Unstoppable. Besides just being a terrible and useless card in general because it has a condition that should never be met unless you are flat out winning anyway, you now no longer have a key condition of the card namely a weapon to use it with.

    Regeneration is another card that really doesn't fit in with an ally theme. Blooding does not have a control ability. He is forced to control through his allies. This generally means if he has and can keep the board he will win if his opponent has the board he will lose. Generally if yo are taking a lot of damage it is because your opponent has the board so extending the game by healing your hero really won't help in that situation. Once you are in a lost possition it doesn't really matter if it takes your opponent 2 turns or 100 turns to kill you if you can't turn it around.

    Extra Sharp I'll admit fits with an ally theme, but it is simply a really bad card as you noted.

    Full Moon looks like it should fit with the ally theme in that it has a strong damage buff component, but for only that purpose Bloodlust would suit you better and even that is only really going to help you when you are already winning.

    That basically just leaves Shriek and Captured Prey on Jacqui's list of cards to cut and while I cannot outright say they have nothing to do with Bloodfang, then more you play test your deck the more you will likely see that those cards are not really winning you man games compared to what the rest of your deck is doing.


    Ok so now you cut a lot of cards and should be close or possibly even below 40 cards let's examine (2)

    You have 17 3cc allies. That means they are basically all competing for the same timeframe of usefulness. Yes you can eventually play 2 per turn but that is not really the most natural progression of a power curve. I generally like to have between 8-11 3cc allies depending on what other cards are competing for my 3cc cost early plays (you actually currently also have Captured Prey potentially in that spot as well and Now Your Mine is not always a bad t3 play either.) Yet you have no late game. You should try balancing out your early and late game a bit more.

    3) Your ability can play any claw attack ally for free. Clearly this is better when you can target a higher cost ally because you might as well play as strong an ally as possible since you aren't paying for it anyway. Yet you max out at 5cc allies and don't even have very many of them. This is clearly wasted potential. At its best your ability can not only play a second big threat for free the same turn you are paying for one (or removing their threats with assorted control cards or even setting up draw, many options with your now open resources really), that threat is buffed if it is wulven and even more importantly you could be playing that big threat before you could possibly have the resources for it. You will usually have your ability by t5 or t6, that means at this point in the game your opponent is expected to be able to deal with 1 threat that cost 5 or 6 resources. They are likely to have a lot of difficulty dealing with a second threat that has a value of more than a 5 or 6 resource ally (a buffed 5 or 6 cost ally or even better yet a buffed 7+ cost ally) in addition. Make sure you can take full advantage of this.

    4) While there is no clear answer on what is adequate draw as it changes based off your deck and play style, almost every deck will want some amount of extra card draw. Generally unilatteral card draw (like Bloodmoon) is better than bilatteral card draw (like Bad Santa), but you don't always have access to unilaatteral card draw that works well with your deck in which case you sometimes have to decide if both you and your opponent having more cards benefits you.

  6. #6
    Junior Member C.D.K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qaz92zaq View Post
    I'm just going to start with a few basic principles.

    1) In general keep your deck as close to 39 cards + Hero as you possibly can.

    2) Keep in mind a balance resourse curve

    3) Build your deck partly around your hero ability

    4) Adequate card draw

    So now let's go back to (1) and Jaqui's long list of cards to cut all of which I would instantly agree with except CP and I'll trust his judgement on that one. You want your deck to be as small as possible meaning you need to figure out the ideal way for Bloodfang to win a game. Well Blodfang's ability is based around allies so that is likely a good place to start looking in terms of ultimately winning. In fact you said a problem with your previous versions was



    So first thing to note about that list is
    What Big Teeth and Speed Strike don't really fit in with a general win through allies theme. 1 damage or even 2 a turn is not enough to really control the board for you allies and you have no way of making you weapon do more so it doesn't really do much for you.

    Those 2 cuts should bring you to Unstoppable. Besides just being a terrible and useless card in general because it has a condition that should never be met unless you are flat out winning anyway, you now no longer have a key condition of the card namely a weapon to use it with.

    Regeneration is another card that really doesn't fit in with an ally theme. Blooding does not have a control ability. He is forced to control through his allies. This generally means if he has and can keep the board he will win if his opponent has the board he will lose. Generally if yo are taking a lot of damage it is because your opponent has the board so extending the game by healing your hero really won't help in that situation. Once you are in a lost possition it doesn't really matter if it takes your opponent 2 turns or 100 turns to kill you if you can't turn it around.

    Extra Sharp I'll admit fits with an ally theme, but it is simply a really bad card as you noted.

    Full Moon looks like it should fit with the ally theme in that it has a strong damage buff component, but for only that purpose Bloodlust would suit you better and even that is only really going to help you when you are already winning.

    That basically just leaves Shriek and Captured Prey on Jacqui's list of cards to cut and while I cannot outright say they have nothing to do with Bloodfang, then more you play test your deck the more you will likely see that those cards are not really winning you man games compared to what the rest of your deck is doing.


    Ok so now you cut a lot of cards and should be close or possibly even below 40 cards let's examine (2)

    You have 17 3cc allies. That means they are basically all competing for the same timeframe of usefulness. Yes you can eventually play 2 per turn but that is not really the most natural progression of a power curve. I generally like to have between 8-11 3cc allies depending on what other cards are competing for my 3cc cost early plays (you actually currently also have Captured Prey potentially in that spot as well and Now Your Mine is not always a bad t3 play either.) Yet you have no late game. You should try balancing out your early and late game a bit more.

    3) Your ability can play any claw attack ally for free. Clearly this is better when you can target a higher cost ally because you might as well play as strong an ally as possible since you aren't paying for it anyway. Yet you max out at 5cc allies and don't even have very many of them. This is clearly wasted potential. At its best your ability can not only play a second big threat for free the same turn you are paying for one (or removing their threats with assorted control cards or even setting up draw, many options with your now open resources really), that threat is buffed if it is wulven and even more importantly you could be playing that big threat before you could possibly have the resources for it. You will usually have your ability by t5 or t6, that means at this point in the game your opponent is expected to be able to deal with 1 threat that cost 5 or 6 resources. They are likely to have a lot of difficulty dealing with a second threat that has a value of more than a 5 or 6 resource ally (a buffed 5 or 6 cost ally or even better yet a buffed 7+ cost ally) in addition. Make sure you can take full advantage of this.

    4) While there is no clear answer on what is adequate draw as it changes based off your deck and play style, almost every deck will want some amount of extra card draw. Generally unilatteral card draw (like Bloodmoon) is better than bilatteral card draw (like Bad Santa), but you don't always have access to unilaatteral card draw that works well with your deck in which case you sometimes have to decide if both you and your opponent having more cards benefits you.
    Thanks for the great explanation. I've culled down the deck to 25 I for sure want to keep so I just need to build on that. I had always planned to add more 5 and 6 cost creatures I just need to wait till I get enough gold to buy more Griptooth, Riphide and Howlfang cards.

    I removed the Infernal Gargoyles and lowered my 3cc count to 11. I had three Bloodmoons and added them and took out the other cards except for Now You're Mine.

    Now I have a question about late game...I'm not too sure what you mean that I have no late game. I don't exactly understand what you mean by late game.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Umbra7's Avatar
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    Personally, i think if you have the deck space, definitely keep at least 2 captured prey or shriek of vengance in there. As others have pointed out, bloodfang relies on his allies to control. And lets face it, sometimes there are some huge threats that you just cant deal with. Captured prey can easily mean the difference between winning and losing in some situations. As for shriek of vengance, spirit shuriken is popular amongst almost all rogues and hunters. Rogues are a pretty bad matchup for bloodfang in general, so you're going to want to shift the tides in your favor as much as possible. Having the ability to destroy a spirit shuriken, an IGG (and a number of other draw engines) or a black garb can give you an edge at the moment you need it most. There are many other items you may need you destroy that very well COULD win you the game. Usually they are draw engines (wrath of forest, bazaar, ill gotten gains, etc.) and weapons (what big teeth, jewlers dream, spirit shuriken, frying pan), but sometimes its artifacts, like evil ascendant, or twilight eidilon.

    As for draw, you're going to want wrath of forest. For now focus your gold on getting 2 riphides, but when you can, get at least 3 wrath of forest. I noticed you had bad wolf, which is cool and all, but you shouldnt run into any problems by cutting him out. His healing ability just isnt useful in 90% of battles. I would also suggest possibly 2 relentless savagery. Since you're choosing pack wolf as your 2cc ally, he uses relentless savagery very well. Due to the nature of relentless savagery, you only would need 2 in deck.
    Shadow of the Night
    Warrior of The Blue Phoenix
    Greatness, Reborn

    Seeker of potential, hidden from the light
    Teacher from the darkness, the Shadow of The Night
    To you I bring my knowledge, hidden from plain sight
    And write it in my blog, bringing new things to the fight


    IGN: BP Umbra Nox

  8. #8
    Junior Member C.D.K.'s Avatar
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    Thanks Umbra. I did wind up cutting Bad Wolf along with the Gargoyles. I did want to keep Shriek of Vengeance in my deck so I'll re-add it and replace Bazaar since I have Blood Moon. I'll check out Wrath of Forest and Relentless Savagery, I think I have at least one already 🤔

  9. #9
    Senior Member qaz92zaq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.D.K. View Post
    Now I have a question about late game...I'm not too sure what you mean that I have no late game. I don't exactly understand what you mean by late game.
    I consider late game to be when both players have 6+ Res. The reason for this is because even without drawing a single extra card you can resource and play a card every until this point and should roughly be dictated from your starting hand and planned out before you resource your first card. Also by this point both heroes will have had the opportunity to use their SE ability at least once (they may or may not choose to but almost definitely had the option).

    To do well in late game you generally need at least 1 of 3 things.

    1) Lots of expensive high value cards to play with those resources

    2) A good amount of draw set up so you can play 2+ cards per turn

    3) Be in such a good position after early game that your opponent hads no chance to catch up, despite having having a better late game based off the first 2 rules.

    I said your deck has no late game because your deck does not really have much in the way of high cost cards or draw so it cannot really use the extra resource potential.

    If your deck was full out rush you could technically rely on (3), but it doesn't really do that at the moment either.

    It does seem you were looking to fix this as soon as possible anyway, but figured I'd answer for future reference.

  10. #10
    Junior Member C.D.K.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qaz92zaq View Post
    I consider late game to be when both players have 6+ Res. The reason for this is because even without drawing a single extra card you can resource and play a card every until this point and should roughly be dictated from your starting hand and planned out before you resource your first card. Also by this point both heroes will have had the opportunity to use their SE ability at least once (they may or may not choose to but almost definitely had the option).

    To do well in late game you generally need at least 1 of 3 things.

    1) Lots of expensive high value cards to play with those resources

    2) A good amount of draw set up so you can play 2+ cards per turn

    3) Be in such a good position after early game that your opponent hads no chance to catch up, despite having having a better late game based off the first 2 rules.

    I said your deck has no late game because your deck does not really have much in the way of high cost cards or draw so it cannot really use the extra resource potential.

    If your deck was full out rush you could technically rely on (3), but it doesn't really do that at the moment either.

    It does seem you were looking to fix this as soon as possible anyway, but figured I'd answer for future reference.
    Ah OK, I understand what you mean. BTW I wanted to thank you (and Umbra!) for being super patient and helping me learn the game and giving me some solid advice 😊

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