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  1. #31
    Senior Member Caitlyn0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    Kyle took the Cancel button away intentionally long ago. I'm astounded how many people have been using "offer draw" to themselves all this time without telling us the exploit was there. It only came to light recently.

    I'm moving this discussion to its own thread now. In fact, I might try to dig out the original discussion on this.
    we all thought the removal of the cancel button was a mistake or glitch. so never saw this as an "exploit" i dont know of ANY other game that penalizes people for leaving a queue before you get matched up. (tournament queues you pay for are a different story but i havent even seen that being penalized, could be wrong on a game or two there)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    OK, so I appreciate that the widening of rating to help get you an opponent means there is now more chance of you not getting a decent match due to opponent being too easy. To combat that, maybe we could add a toggle for you to choose whether to widen rating or not, and suffer the longer wait if you don't want to widen it. However, I think once more people get on 3.14, this situation will start sorting itself out on its own - we're just seeing the worst because this is Day 1 of the new version. If everyone stopped doing pop-ups for a couple of days and did QM instead then that would help a lot, I'm sure.
    has this ever been a problem though? when wew had the cancel button, things were fine. when we had this offer draw option, you guys didnt know about apparently, it was fine. this offer draw thing has been going on almost since the cancel button disappeared. its been alked about openly in telgram for over a year. (surprised you never saw it till recently). we all thought wulven knew about it. we thought that it was the reason the cancel button never came back because you were focusing on other things. well, maybe not all of us, i guess i cant speak for everyone.

    you mentioned hearthstone, with does a have a larger player base by far and there are always people playing... and yet, they still have time issues with matching up players. you can leave at anytime before getting an opponent and not be penalized.

    there are a ton of reasons to leave before being matched up that are valid, from mistakes, being on a lunch break and no longer having time, as dejvo said, even having a guildmate want to do a created game and you have already waited too long for an opponent. this is actually going to cause fewer games to be played. just the being on a lunch break reason or riding to wrok on the bus or train, they are not going to even start one to play, they will go play something else.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member XanteseZerylliom's Avatar
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    I have a daughter (and another little one on the way). There are a bajillion tiny emergencies that might pop up making it so I suddenly have to change my mind about the game I fully intended to start.
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  3. #33
    Member Azbycx's Avatar
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    For me since I'm not top 10 or anything I would just screw it and quit searching anyway. Losing rating or score doesn't matter to me, but if other people do the same then this isn't a good solution to queue times. What we need is more players.

  4. #34
    Senior Member jacelkos's Avatar
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    Two minutes is more than fair.
    We're not talking about automatically disconnecting, but having the possibility to exit the queue.

    And I agree with Jacqui. When I'm looking for a quick game during a break I get annoyed when it takes longer than 30s.
    When I have time I don't mind waiting (and therefore won't cancel).

    I also agree with Azbycx: people who don't care about rating or score (which I assume is almost everyone but about 300 players) will simply exit the game.
    If the player gets matched right after, its opponent has to sit through 3/4 turns of idle play before the quitter gets disconnected (happened to me yesterday).

    The end result is that you're simply penalizing people who care about score/rating without improving the probability of match making (since most people will simply quit anyway regardless of the penalty).
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  5. #35
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    In this thread I've seen people give various valid reasons why they want to be able to quit without losing rating while they haven't yet started a game, and I haven't seen any convincing reasons why this should not be allowed.

    Let me add my own reason.

    I play only very occasionally these days. This means I'm often at a very low rating, because I start off at zero for each season and it takes a few games to go up to a rating more suited to my deck and level of play. I don't often have to wait long, but it does happen occasionally (on all versions I've played). Unexpected things can and do come up (e.g., because of kids or other external events). The penalty of losing rating for having to quit the queue for me would imply that I have to play at least one or two additional games to get to an appropriate level. Anything you do to make it harder for me to reach that level in a short number of games make it more likely that I'll play less, rather than more.

    Kyle's supposed 'reason' for taking away the cancel button is a classic straw-man argument: he states that if no one would want to wait for any amount time, then no one would play. That is clearly not an issue here. Many people are quite happy to wait for various amounts of time, and will leave the game anyway if the real world forces them (lunch break is over, kids, have to get off bus, ...).
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  6. #36
    Lead Developer / Designer Gondorian's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing all your thoughts on this. Maybe Kyle will have a rethink, I don't know.

    In the mean time, if everyone was willing to do a bit more waiting for the sake of helping others who are also looking for a game on the new version, then we'll all be better off. Once more are on there, it'll get easier to find an opponent and this will be less of an issue. I'll do my best to get on today for some games - if you beat me then you can have an SC redeem code.

  7. #37
    Lead Developer / Designer Gondorian's Avatar
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    Well, I tried to help out a bit by playing some games (and will do so more for the rest of the day during Euro 2016 matches). I got paired up within 2 seconds four times in a row. I was approx 220ish rating. After the first game, I tried getting paired with ED Frost who wanted to play by hitting Battle at the same time, but I kept getting other people. So I guess, for some people, it pairs too fast! My hope is that I can climb up in rating to get paired more with people who wait longer, but I'm using forthcoming new starter decks so it's a challenge.

  8. #38
    Senior Member bobrossw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gondorian View Post
    Well, I tried to help out a bit by playing some games (and will do so more for the rest of the day during Euro 2016 matches). I got paired up within 2 seconds four times in a row. I was approx 220ish rating. After the first game, I tried getting paired with ED Frost who wanted to play by hitting Battle at the same time, but I kept getting other people. So I guess, for some people, it pairs too fast! My hope is that I can climb up in rating to get paired more with people who wait longer, but I'm using forthcoming new starter decks so it's a challenge.
    well you can easily simulate the experience by just deciding you want to play a game, then start a timer and instead of playing the game, stare at a wall. I think 2 minutes really is about as much of that as most people can handle. For me, those super long waits tend to happen when I'm very highly rated (like over 330) and am playing at odd times. If the super long wait doesn't happen, then it won't hurt to have a cancel button appear after 2 minutes (or just automatic draw - no ui needed). If the super long wait thing is happening (it is), then it's a disservice to customers to penalize them for not wanting to endure it.
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  9. #39
    Lead Developer / Designer Gondorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobrossw View Post
    well you can easily simulate the experience by just deciding you want to play a game, then start a timer and instead of playing the game, stare at a wall. I think 2 minutes really is about as much of that as most people can handle. For me, those super long waits tend to happen when I'm very highly rated (like over 330) and am playing at odd times. If the super long wait doesn't happen, then it won't hurt to have a cancel button appear after 2 minutes (or just automatic draw - no ui needed). If the super long wait thing is happening (it is), then it's a disservice to customers to penalize them for not wanting to endure it.
    I was going to joke about making the Cancel Waiting button a premium feature, but maybe there's something in that - we could add it when you hit a certain rating, since it gets harder to find an opponent then and you have to wait longer, and we can reward our top players with an elite feature. However, all you will get then is fewer people waiting when you are higher up and less chance of being paired. Hence why we don't allow cancelling in the first place because people will use it, especially those waiting long times which happen as you get higher up. I do not think it's a coincidence that as the "offer draw" trick became more well known, there were more people complaining about waiting a long time.

    As for my own playing this weekend, it shows there are definitely players out there when you're waiting, but not in your range at the time. Maybe we could widen it sooner. The fact is that when you are one of the best players around then the chance of running into other people on your level is going to be reduced. Would you be happy to have a wider rating range to be paired with initially? Maybe it could be dynamic based on the ratings of all people currently online, rather than static at 50/75/100.

    Finally, I have to say that I would never just stare at a wall while waiting. How about a little breathing meditation or light exercise? Maybe pace around the room punching the air?

  10. #40
    DP Visionary Demnchi's Avatar
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    You and Kyle do understand that the problem here is punishing players for leaving a queue and not the actual wait times, right?
    Last edited by Demnchi; 06-18-2016 at 03:43 PM.
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