Rush needs a buff

[danae]

Keep the conversation constructive and I encourage everyone to keep a level head and to stop being so defensive in their arguments.

@Jack - I play at around 280+ rating and I've met a Loest rush deck using Kris and a Majiya rush deck. Both were quite effective. But those decks were a combination of burn/rush build. I don't think I've seen a pure rush build except during the time when we still had 30 card minimums. I don't think a pure rush build can be consistent anymore and it's not just because of Sabreen.

As for Sabreen, the drawback to her is that you need an empty board for her to be useful while Krygon and Viska don't have that restriction. If you end up with one of your allies disabled, then Sabreen won't really help you retake the board much. Also, your arguments about her not fitting the lore, that's your own interpretation of what Templars are meant to be/do. I didn't necessarily see anything in her that contradicts the existing lore as based in the Templar Tribes in Focus. In fact, statements like

"They began to search among their nations for a new breed of warrior to take up arms, one who did not share faith in Unaxio himself but faith in any deity. They sought soldiers capable of harnessing these ideals into a fighting power."

and

"Alone, each Templar is a powerful combatant."

seems to fit her perfectly.

[danae]

Or hey if it's the case of that's the directions the game is going, no more rush, just stall long game tactics, let me know. Before now I had thought that balance was something that this game strove to achieve. If that's the case I'll shut up right now. But if balance is what we are after then am I not trying to help in a constructive manner? Please admins response is needed here. Balancing still a thing?

The way I see it, balancing is focused on making sure that as many heroes as possible are viable. And that we have options to various strategies. It doesn't mean that all strategies are going to be competitive. A Resource Destruction strategy is possible but it'll only get you so far. A Shard of Power rush deck can also work but that as well is inconsistent. The problem with these types of strategies is that in most cases, you need to get the ideal starting hand to actually do well. That's the case with a rush build. If you expect the dev team to make it so that rush decks are consistent and competitive, then how can any of the other deck strategies compete?

[maskee]

Rush mages are still damn strong. Even CotC Elad can reach 300 rating in current meta...

But I have to agree that other rush concepts are much weaker. There was nice homunculus Raikka rush,... Arthyle's Pass: Dead Man's Breach can be nice tool to help fast agro rush if balanced well... but I agree in general that current meta shifted to 60+ cards control decks, and rush as oposite part will probably need small buff in future. With more cards even bigger decks will be playable and no one wants to see 100 cards decks in whole meta...

[The MiddleAgedNerd]

Im going to play devils advocate here and hope that what i am guessing about jack is right

First off i have played jack multiple times in qm. He is allways polite allways gg either way and is never rude. He likes playing ele.

I would GUESS what happens is turn five he gets lucky and drops a exaltalis on a spider and cleans the board and then opponent rage quits. He gets no points and moves on. He is high on ladder so that gets very very frustrating when you are trying to get points. Again only conjecture. I have never seen him post an angry thread but i ASSUME enough of these and he makes him annoyed and rightfully so.

ADMIN GONDORIAN KYLE SOMEBODY please resond to the point of rage quits. After the cards are dealt the game started. If you have 120 card deck and get a crap opening hand you should get full credit for the loss and opponent gets full credit for win. Period.

I dont give a damn if the opponent loses rating. Ininly care about my score and my rating not thiers. I don't play to see thier rating drop i play to see mone increase and more important my score.

Fix this issue and alot of players are happy. There is zero logic currently behind this rule.

And jack is a nice guy. Always polite in qm. And a pleasure to play against.

Also about sabreen. I think she is totally fine. But i also think krygon needs a health buff. He is the most inferior of all 3cc haste allies and only very slighty better than the 1cc kris. Ffm has 5 health and a similar ability in as far as usefullness. And dire wolf has 4 health and can grow. Krygon is at best a 3 damage on turn 4. Best case scenario. He should have NEVER been nerfed. One health sucks

[maskee]

I would GUESS what happens is turn five he gets lucky and drops a exaltalis on a spider and cleans the board and then opponent rage quits. He gets no points and moves on.

No points from rage quit T5 was changed to T4. So if you play first and reached T5, you will get money, rating, points if oponent rage quit in his T5!

[The MiddleAgedNerd]

No points from rage quit T5 was changed to T4. So if you play first and reached T5, you will get money, rating, points if oponent rage quit in his T5!

I dont think thats true. Ive had people quit turn five and it tells me no points awarded. But since DT hasnt responded i dont know. Apparently this is a topic they wpuld rather not talk about. I had a priest recently quit turn 5 after what i presume was not getting a tidal wave and i didnt get points.

[Jack of Clubs]

I don't know how to quote someone

Danae I realize rush is played, I play it, but competitively only the Mage rush works top tier. Rush could work if more attention was given to it, with lost lands adding more cards more options were given, more ways to kill, but not much in the way for some rush allies that might work, I think with the right ally abilities rush could work again without preventing other playable styles. And as for sabreen, in most of the decks she would be alone turn 4 anyways, and the discarding or a card isn't much, with the massive card draw being played by most. Sabreen is in almost every human deck, I've seen humoc decks with sabreen in it. Over powered or over played either way you look at it she needs to be Nerfed. And rush finding that ideal starting hand, not asking for all the right cards to give a win early every game, asking for the possibility of it happening even just occasionally. Right now in competitive play, you can't rush because sabreen and other cards kills allies early, it's not because there aren't good cards to rush with. What used to be a good turn 2 karash, turn 3 krygon start is now wipes out by a turn 4 sabreen, or any 2 allies under 2 health. See what I mean yet, she can in one turn kill what I dropped in 2. Takes out troll. The guy who already got a nerf for being too strong, she makes troll look like a kindergartner.

Middle, i do get frustrated at exactly what you mentioned, people won't play when by turn 4 they are 3 allies down. Can't blame them it's no fun playing when you know you are going to lose, but that doesnt mean I should get nothing for my efforts. My rating should be higher than it is with the amount of disconnects I get, most of those would have been wins. Just seems like the game itself doesn't want rush.

I really don't think it would be that hard to make rush competitive again. Nerf the cards stopping it. Their stall decks will stil work if sabreen can't ability until turn 5 or what ever the nerf might be.

[Caitlyn0]

Seems a bit defensive there considering the title of the post is not in sync with the body of the post.

Is this a post about buffing rush? as addressed in your first paragraph

or

is this a post to nerf Sabreen again? as you go on to chat a lot about her

or

is this a post about early quitters? as you go on to finish with (just before the nerf defense)


sounds a lot like you just want to win by turn 7 and not a lot of actual factual insightful anything about rush - I agree the early quitting especially at the lower ranks is a pain and any game that goes a few turns actively should count in my opinion, I can see your point in regards to a rush deck getting a good start and the opponent quitting to deny you your just victory

As far as a buff to rush in general I'm not sure it is needed or healthy but you never know and for sure there will always be cards as well as strategies that "buff" this archetype so probably nothing to do there

as for Sabreen if you feel she needs yet another nerf (vers say buffing some other cards *see gondo's buff thread*) maybe you need to do a thread calling for yet another nerf

Hope that was not too much "flaming" for you - Good luck out there! regards

im with tafkad here, i am confused on what you are actually wanting.

what deck are you actually using? can we see it and maybe make some suggestions? i have a pretty good elementalis that rushes but can also maintain a late game as well. its posted here its my claw ravager elemetalis deck. not a lot of haste but it sure puts on a lot of early pressure, and that is aggro. (it also laughes at sabreen. saying GO AHEAD, hit my allies, bwahaha)

rush is a form of aggro. it puts on pressure with a lot of weenie rushing with a fair amount of haste. a pure aggro deck, keeps the pressure up and your opponent on the defensive, whatever the means. rush mage is a combo of early rush allies and then burn their face off because you have ton of draw to get to your burn cards. which particular one are you talking about? aggro is still there and still works well.

my guess, since you listed that early quitters are a problem, is that you play weenie rush or mage rush.

[BP LORD WANE]

ok, following my nerw way to make comments (tnx for this Dnae).
Jack. I think the game dont need a buff for ruash, they are strong, really strong, u can see loest rush or even elad ad good decks, Ythan have his rush version, majiya, and even a rothen can be good if u know how to build.
In my opinion u must to learn how to play as CONTROL, for 2 thinks:

1: Will make u a better and more complete player.
2: Your agroo or rush play stylle will grow, as u ll know how all control decks will play or work, u ll be able to think in eatch play that your oponent can make.

I really hope that u think about this, because just ask for agroo, rush and more agroo for shadow era is totaly non-sense (to be polied).

[Jack of Clubs]

Cat we all know your opinion, nothing should ever be nerfed, we should all just flock to the few op decks at the time. And thanks for the offer but if I wanted help deck building I'd have asked. I have presented an opinion using facts, and in return I get, no everything is fine it must but you.(can't add to the convo so must troll?) But as stated there is Mage rush, but other than that it isn't viable top tier. The other decks you stated do not stand up to the top decks right now.

My original post, presented a basic statement about rush, then I pointed out 2 specific things, sabreen and early quitters that both I feel have impacted the playability of rush. How is any of this confusing? It's all relative to rush needing help.

Someone argue that humans need sabreen. Do priests need her to survive, how about hunters or warriors? Why is everyone so in love with this card? Did humans need this crazy buff to remain competitive? Do all humans need a card that can clear things out early and help comeback late, while combining with many other cards? Thought humans were doing pretty well before sabreen. But now everyone acts as if the game will collapse if a card is balanced. If her ability cost was increased should wouldn't be as strong early. Still very strong early and late, won't ruin sabreen will probably still be in most decks.

The current amount of cards with all the ways things can be done, asking for some more competitive rush isn't ridiculous. I like rush, not just Mage rush. Control/long game decks have all the cards they could ever want, and now they can pick and choose with seek. But asking for some basic speed attack decks that work is ridiculed. I don't get it.