Ability technicalities

[The MiddleAgedNerd]

I actually think the best answer to all questions is to test in game

Yeah just do stuff and see what happens. Thats how i roll. I totally agree.

[mindy]

that doesnt help much if the game is not correctly programmed.

[msaf]

Okay, tested in game.

Ythan casts his ability on an ally (can attack twice+ambush)
Groundshift
result: ally loses ambush, but still can attack twice

Irina (may attack twice)
Groundshift
result: Irina can attack only once

As i understand, it is considered correct, since Gondorian writes:
While an ability grants a keyword passive ability to another card (or itself), we treat that keyword passive ability as though it is written on the card it is being granted to.

But why should keyword and non-keyword abilities behave differently is beyond me.

[jacqui]

But why should keyword and non-keyword abilities behave differently is beyond me.

"Keywords are shorthand ways of writing common abilities on cards. A keyword represents a larger ability text, but saves space on the card and can be read more quickly." - Rulebook

I don't see any logical reason keywords should behave differently than non-keywords given the only reason they exist is to save space on a card.

[trevorJacobs]

But why should keyword and non-keyword abilities behave differently is beyond me.

1) Because that's the rules

2) You are mis-understanding. Some keywords behave the same as some non-keywords: disabled (keyword) and can't attack (not a keyword) are both Negative Effects and thus not affected by Groundshift, but will be cancelled by Paladin of Unaxio

The important point is the source of the ability: if the ability is sourced to that ally, then it is cancelled by LD / MA / Groundshift. So Irena's ability is cancelled because it is sourced to that ally; Ythan's ability, when applied to an ally, is sourced to Ythan.

The only complicated bit (which is the bit i think you object to) is that keywords are always transferred to the target - they are never sourced to another ally / hero / artifact.

[ShrapnelFox]

Thanks for the explanation Veles.

I'll have to book mark this thread or somehow summarize a segment for the "Fun Facts" thread.

Somewhere I can easily reference in future, as I find it all a bit convoluted.

[Nik]

Okay, tested in game.

Ythan casts his ability on an ally (can attack twice+ambush)
Groundshift
result: ally loses ambush, but still can attack twice

Irina (may attack twice)
Groundshift
result: Irina can attack only once

As i understand, it is considered correct, since Gondorian writes:
While an ability grants a keyword passive ability to another card (or itself), we treat that keyword passive ability as though it is written on the card it is being granted to.

But why should keyword and non-keyword abilities behave differently is beyond me.

Irina´s ability is a passive as it doesn´t have a cost. That passive ability prevents the ally from exhausting on the first attack. Ythan´s ability is an active, granting a passive ability (ambush) that is cancelled by groundshift. The other part of the ability only prevents the targeted ally from exhausting on the first attack, but never becomes a passive ability as its source is always Ythan (who is readying the ally), not the ally itself.

[Anasia]

But if attacking twice counts as a passive ability this means that Ythan using his active ability grants the passive ability "attacking twice" to an ally, why shouldn't it be cancelled by Groundshift? If there was a keyword "double attack" (on both Irina and Ythan ability) would it work differently?
The same confusion with Raikka - doesn't she give 2 passive abilities to all her allies?

[trevorJacobs]

But if attacking twice counts as a passive ability this means that Ythan using his active ability grants the passive ability "attacking twice" to an ally, why shouldn't it be cancelled by Groundshift? If there was a keyword "double attack" (on both Irina and Ythan ability) would it work differently?
The same confusion with Raikka - doesn't she give 2 passive abilities to all her allies?

Attacking twice only counts as a passive ability if it is written on the card

Ythan grants ambush as if it is written on the card (this is defined in the game rules as how keywords work); it does not do the same for attacking twice. (Ythan does not, as you say, 'grant the passive ability "attacking twice"')

If there was a new keyword 'double attack (this ally can attack twice in one turn)' possessed by Irena, and conferred by Ythan's ability it would be different: both would be cancelled by Groundshift.

Now, i agree that this is confusing / unhelpful / complex, but it is consistent. For whatever reason, Wulven / DT want to define the rules in this way, and that is what we have.

You can look through LOTS of my previous posts where i have criticised this / the Rulebook / Gondorian - i wish this would change. BUT these are the rules of the game.

P.S. Nik's description above is correct.

[Anasia]

Attacking twice only counts as a passive ability if it is written on the card

Ythan grants ambush as if it is written on the card (this is defined in the game rules as how keywords work); it does not do the same for attacking twice. (Ythan does not, as you say, 'grant the passive ability "attacking twice"')

If there was a new keyword 'double attack (this ally can attack twice in one turn)' possessed by Irena, and conferred by Ythan's ability it would be different: both would be cancelled by Groundshift.

Now, i agree that this is confusing / unhelpful / complex, but it is consistent. For whatever reason, Wulven / DT want to define the rules in this way, and that is what we have.

You can look through LOTS of my previous posts where i have criticised this / the Rulebook / Gondorian - i wish this would change. BUT these are the rules of the game.

P.S. Nik's description above is correct.

Thank you for the explanation. I am trying to comprehend all these rules intuitively, but this approach doesn't work with SE. I think complexity isn't a bad thing, it is a part of the "skill curve", but it might be a little bit more intuitive and newbie friendly... Honestly I'm glad that Groundshift brought more confusion about abilities, posts from Gondorian and experienced players are really educative and make things much more clear.