Groundshift question (see OP for official answer)

[FunkyGandalf]

Well, Lance's and Tala's ability give passive abilities to allies, so i think even the old groundshift stopped that; the 2 most relevant things i could think of "hero passives" is MS stealth, and Hidden provided by Into The Forest (and i guess 2 of the rejig's most important points).

[ShrapnelFox]

Disable and Poison are Negative Effects and aren't considered passives, so they would be unaffected by Groundshift. The Hunter Ally cost reduction is an active effect sourced to Skervox himself, which Groundshift does not interact with since it only interacts with allies. Unless I'm forgetting someone, the only heroes whos abilities would be affected by Groundshift are Tala (Protector) and Moonstalker (Stealth). Even still, that's only because the hero gave the ally itself the passive.

A good rule of thumb(s) for what is and isn't a passive would be something like this:

1. A Keyword on an ally that is not a negative effect (eg. Protector, Stealth, Hidden, Defender, and Haste are all passives)
2. Any ability that comes from an ally that does not have a Resource or Shadow Energy cost (eg. Aldon's +1 attack buff is a Passive, while Marshland Sentinal's 0-attack ability is an Activated ability)

Excellent explanation

Added to the Fun Facts! Hope you don't mind.

http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....l=1#post579073

[trevorJacobs]

The 2 most relevant things i could think of "hero passives" is MS stealth, and Hidden provided by Into The Forest (and i guess 2 of the rejig's most important points).

Nope. Into the Forest is provided by an attachment, so you would need to get rid of that attachment - as the effect is 'sourced'.

At least, that's what i understand from Gondorian's comments on abilities elsewhere. This thread (and loads of others) highlight how convoluted this whole thing is though ...

[Anasia]

Into the Forest is provided by an attachment, so you would need to get rid of that attachment - as the effect is 'sourced'.

I think it should be removed, because "Hidden" is a keyword. As I understand in the case of Groundshift the source of a passive ability doesn't matter, but I'm not entirely sure...

[Anonymos]

You forgot about Lance - grants haste/ambush/stealth - all cancelled by groundshift and Ythan - ambush is cancelled (double attacks are not a keyword, so they stick), Darkclaw also loses his ambush.

Dont think darkclaw will be affected... Lance,tala, ythan and ms give passives to allies. Darkclaw is a hero tho

[trevorJacobs]

I think it should be removed, because "Hidden" is a keyword. As I understand in the case of Groundshift the source of a passive ability doesn't matter, but I'm not entirely sure...

Would Layarian Diplomat remove keywords granted by an attachment?

Can he stop an opposing ally being disabled by Captured Prey? Can he remove protector granted by Battle Hardened (and if so, does the damage reduction remain?)?

What a mess. This game lacks proper codification. Scratch the surface, and it starts to come apart

[Anasia]

Would Layarian Diplomat remove keywords granted by an attachment?

Can he stop an opposing ally being disabled by Captured Prey? Can he remove protector granted by Battle Hardened (and if so, does the damage reduction remain?)?

What a mess. This game lacks proper codification. Scratch the surface, and it starts to come apart

I believe Diplomat should remove all passive abilities, even granted by attachments (not negative effects, like disabling and poisoning, though). But I'm also interested whether damage reduction granted by attachements counts as passive ability. And will Hunter's Gambit draw cards after the ally to whom it was attached to died with Groundshift in play?
Hopefully someone more experienced can clarify this.

[trevorJacobs]

Yeah - i agree. It's properly sad that it's impossible to work this out from reading both the rulebook and the card text. Makes playing any CCG really frustrating if you can't tell what's supposed to happen.

(edit: Hunter's Gambit will still draw cards as that is not an ally ability, but a condition on the attachment. Compare with Tainted Oracle, who would not trigger draw on death under Groundshift)

[Gondorian]

Would Layarian Diplomat remove keywords granted by an attachment?

Can he stop an opposing ally being disabled by Captured Prey? Can he remove protector granted by Battle Hardened (and if so, does the damage reduction remain?)?

What a mess. This game lacks proper codification. Scratch the surface, and it starts to come apart

You're confusing negative effects and passive abilities - maybe it's because they are both written in bold sometimes?

We use bold to show that a word has a special meaning and can't just be read at face value (some games call this a loaded keyword).

As has been explained before, this is why not all negative effects are in bold since some can be understood purely on their wording (e.g. "can't attack") and it is why we have resisted putting them in bold - bold does not denote a negative effect, it denotes a keyword and some negative effects are keywords. All usage of negative effects in wording refer to a state of being (e.g. target ally is poisoned, all allies are set ablaze, etc.).

As for passive abilities, the ones we write in bold as keywords (keyword passive abilities) are representing traits/skills that could be granted by card effects, whereas bespoke ones that are explained on the card itself without using a keyword are special to that card and can't be granted. All of the ones that can be granted are always written in bold and are either written on their own (e.g. "Ambush") or refer to a state of possession (e.g. target ally has ambush until the end of the turn, target ally gains ambush, etc.).

More info on abilities here: http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....Ability-Basics

I hope you will agree actually this is not a mess. The mess comes from making assumptions and then incorrectly applying them.

[Demnchi]

You forgot about Lance - grants haste/ambush/stealth - all cancelled by groundshift and Ythan - ambush is cancelled (double attacks are not a keyword, so they stick), Darkclaw also loses his ambush.

Right, I forgot about those two. Guess this is what I get for posting that so late at night. x.x

Although, as Anonymos points out, Darkclaw's Ambush isn't effected by Groundshift.

Excellent explanation

Added to the Fun Facts! Hope you don't mind.

http://www.shadowera.com/showthread....l=1#post579073

Don't mind at all. Although if you could change the post to include Lance and Ythan for a comprehensive (and correct) list I would appreciate it. Thanks!