LL card values

[maxi1230]

1000th post yey!

So I found the "stop nerfs" thread yesterday and saw Gondorian helped me start this by making a list of cards :P . I will now give a reason for literally every card why it is not useful, as well as why it is useful. Then I will compare the negative and the positive values and rate them after the following ratio:

2: Competitive Usable in almost all decks
1: Competitive Usable in the right set-up
0: Somewhere between competitive and casual; Good in some aspects, there are better cards for that purpose though
-1: Usable in lower rated/casual/fun decks
-2: Not usable in any deck

Ok let's go:

Vigilant Wisp - this card is not useful because it has meek --> no aggro usage; it has only one attack
Vigilant Wisp - this card is useful because it has a great ally search effect which is perfect for Homunculus decks; it has great health and deals electrical damage
Rating: 1; This card is a very great tool in homunculus decks;

Entangled Wisp - this card is not useful because it only boosts homunculus allies; only has 4 health
Entangled Wisp - this card is useful because it can boost the attack of your homunculus allies very quick and high; he is not unique; he deals electric damage;
Rating: 1; Again a very useful ally for homunculus decks especially since Vigilant Wisp can search multiple of them;

Unaxio Squire - this card is not useful because it comes into play without attack and cannot defend; It does not deal arcane damage; It only really works in Templar decks;
Unaxio Squire - this card is useful because it can boost other Templar allies to allow them to take out an ally with one shot to deny any defending damage; high health;
Rating: 0; This card may be useful in some decks, however Templars tend to either run Avenger of the Fallen or no 2cc at all.

Unaxio Bannerman - this card is not useful because it does not deal arcane damage; it has the cost of discarding an ability to activate its effect; only Templar allies can gain the effect;
Unaxio Bannerman - this card is useful because his effect grants a great way to keep the board; attack buff + haste are quite rewarding for a discard; has a decent body to stay on board;
Rating: 1; Wonderful in decks constructed for it.

Sabreen, Hand of Unaxio - this card is not useful because she is not useful when you already have an ally on board;
Sabreen, Hand of Unaxio - this card is useful because it has huge value when played alone, being able to take out 4 Health allies on its own for 4cc and any card discarded. On top of that she can be boosted/supported by abilities. Being able to haste in her body is quite decent too with 2/4. She deals arcane damage on both discarding and attacking.
Rating: 2; A great card for a broad variety of decks.

General of Unaxio - this card is not useful because its body is rather weak for a 5cc; you can't play the attachment in the turn you search it in midgame usually because of his high cost
General of Unaxio - this card is useful because it is a great tool for attachment based decks, as well as Templar decks; it deals arcane damage; the only card to recycle discarded abilities immediately;
Rating: 1; In the decks he is supposed to be in he rocks and makes attachment decks a lot more consistent.

Twilight Shepherdess - this card is not useful because she needs to stay on board for a turn in late game to be useful; sacrificing a fatty is quite a high cost for ressource renewal;
Twilight Shepherdess - this card is useful because she has great amount of health to make her stay on board; she gives Twilight Allignment to allow combos;
Rating: -1; This card seems a bit niche to me. You can surely have a lot of fun with it, but most times her setup is too hard to fulfill.

Twilight Luminary - this card is not useful because it can give Haste to only exactly three different allies, all being weenies.
Twilight Luminary - this card is useful because its stats are quite decent; it can search allies;
Rating: -1; after the nerf it lost some of its magic. Definitely not that usable anymore competetively.

Twilight Orphic - this card is not useful because it has quite low stats for a 3cc;
Twilight Orphic - this card is useful because its on-summon effect is really useful in Twilight decks, which try to overwhelm the oppenent. Its on-death effect is quite decent too.
Rating: 1; Great card in twilight aggro-midrange decks;

Avatar of Twilight - this card is not useful because it has weak stats for a 6cc. Only revives rwo allies with 1 health.
Avatar of Twilight - this card is useful because its effect can overwhelm oppenents who are not prepared for it
Rating: 0; Again a card that lost some of its magic. It can surprise oppenents, but doesn't have that much of an impact anymore.

Kallista, Twilight Matriarch - this card is not useful because she has to survive a turn to use her ability. Only works on twilight allies and sacrifices them. Quite a high cost to invest in the combo; unique;
Kallista, Twilight Matriarch - this card is useful because her effect is interesting and can work as either haste or double attack+ double ability.
Rating: -1 It can be incredible fun to use the combo, however her high cost makes it hard to use her.

Flame Spitter - this card is not useful because it only has 4 health.
Flame Spitter - this card is useful because it can be boosted as a homunculus; it deals fire damage; it deals retalation damage even when killed;
Rating: 0 Useful card in some decks, however there are both fire as well as Homunculus allies which are a little bit better.

Sword Gobbler - this card is not useful because outside of Frying Pan Combo it has only 1/3 stats on t2
Sword Gobbler - this card is useful because it has great late game value with big stats for 2cc as well it is able to deny weapon revival by oppenent. It can be boosted as a Homunculus.
Rating: 0 Useful in some decks; However there are better 2ccs to pick from usually and it is not that easy to combine homunculus with weapons

Caged Savage - this card is not useful because it cannot attack on its own and needs support
Caged Savage - this card is useful because it has huge health; if the oppenent ignores it it can punish hard.
Rating: 1; wonderful in Elementalis, not sure in which other decks

Feasterling - this card is not useful because it can be your bane against burn or aggro decks; two damage every turn is nothing to laugh at. If you don't use its ability it has poor stats
Feasterling - this card is useful because the +2 attack effect is great for gaining board early game and gives shadow a second way to deal with Karash. It can benefit from ravager cards and dish out a lot of damge fast
Rating: 2; great in aggro, as well as ravager decks

Towering Brute - this card is not useful because when not being damaged it has only 1 attack
Towering Brute - this card is useful because it can deny haste damage to heroes by weenies; great health; benefits from ravager cards;
Rating: 0; it is not bad in some aspects but not great either

Hellfire Besieger - this card is not useful because it needs to survive a turn to be able to use its ability; you need to have an item or ability set up in order to use its ability
Hellfire Besieger - this card is useful because it benefits from ravager cards; it deals fire damage both on ability and attack;
Rating: 0; Again a card that is useful in some decks, but still not great

Brakkong, Menace of Thriss - this card is not useful because it is unique; you need at least two allies on board to activate its ability;
Brakkong, Menace of Thriss - this card is useful because it can be played for less ressources; its ability is great for damaging ravager allies, but also works on other allies; benefits from Ravager cards;
Rating: 1; A cool card for decks that run a lot of abilities and items, as well as for Ravager decks;

Kiruth Devotee - this card is not useful because it has meek; his card effect is quite costly; hard to use on t2; most of the time you need another card to fulfill the kill condition;
Kiruth Devotee - this card is useful because it has ice attack; it can overwhelm oppenents;
Rating: 0; a card I rather considered a win-more card, however I have seen it working great a few times already;

Forgotten Horror - this card is not useful because its stats are quite fragile for its cost; its negative restriction denies the use of non-undead allies; you cannot target its ability;
Forgotten Horror - this card is useful because the enter-play effect is great to get the board; it has ice attack; it works when entering play to be useable in Gravebone;
Rating: 0; a card that has a lot of potential;

[maxi1230]

Wulven Traitor - this card is not useful because it has quite weak stats for its cost; draw is at the end of turn;
Wulven Traitor - this card is useful because it is not unique --> becomes a great draw engine with 2 or more on board; low cost and a body makes it easy to use;
Rating: 1; very useful in Wulven decks;

Wildfang, Wulven Renegade - this card is not useful because it is unique;
Wildfang, Wulven Renegade - this card is useful because its card reducing effect is great;
Rating: 1; It was really useful in Wulven decks before nerf, it is still alright;

Barrenland Gremlin - this card is not useful because it has no attack and needs support to be able to attack;
Barrenland Gremlin - this card is useful because it benefits from homunculus cards; has good health at 1cc; can gain attack with items on its own;
Rating: 1; A good card for aggro homunculus decks;

Eternal Troll - this card is not useful because playing multiple risks losing the ability; it has weak stats for 3cc;
Eternal Troll - this card is useful because it can benefit from homuculus cards; its ability is great against one shot abilities and boardwipes; also works as a pseudo ambush effect; can be used to lower weapons durability;
Rating: 0; before the nerf it would be a 2 for me; now it might be better to run Gargoyle or Morbid Acelolyte;

Armored Packbeast - this card is not useful because it has no attack at first and cannot attack;
Armored Packbeast - this card is useful because it is not unique and can heal great amounts of damage; it benefits from homunculus cards; good staying power with the damage reduction;
Rating: 1; Great card in some decks but hard to use in others;

Stalactitan - this card is not useful because it is hard to benefit from its passive abilities, since frozen is a rather rare effect;
Stalactitan - this card is useful because it has ice attack; it benefits from homunculus cards;
Rating: -1; rather fun card; it can be used with Voice of the Winter, but burn is more effective than this;

Void Wretch - this card is not useful because locations are not popular;
Void Wretch - this card is useful because it can be played for less ressources; Steadfast; it is not unique; it can benefit from homunculus cards;
Rating -1; as long as a lot of Locations aren't used in high level plays this card remains less usable than it could be;

Child of Aldmor - this card is not useful because it helps oppenent as well;
Child of Aldmor - this card is useful because lowest cost card to give SE acceleration; can be shuffled back and used multiple times;
Rating 0; it is usable in some decks but usually not the first pick;

Aldmor Interceptor - this card is not useful because it is hard to use going first; weak stats for 2cc; usually cannot defend on oppenents turn;
Aldmor Interceptor - this card is useful because its effect is great to control the board; good late game value;
Rating: 0; not a bad card, however hard to use;

Darklight Apprentice - this card is not useful because it has meek alone;
Darklight Apprentice - this card is useful because it has good staying power; Great SE acceleration and makes most of the aldmor cards a lot better;
Rating: 1; It is one of the key cards in Aldmor decks;

Gloomwielder - this card is not useful because its effect is too niche to be useful; weak staying power for its effect;
Gloomwielder - this card is useful because it has awesome art; you can play multiple of them so they protect each other;
Rating: -1; really not that useful, especially with the shadow energy restriction; often a 3/4 vanilla ally;

Aldmor Artisan - this card is not useful because it becomes a 2/5 vanilla once you have played all artifacts;
Aldmor Artisan - this card is useful because it has a great search effect as well as passive ability for aldmor decks; not unique;
Rating 1; another key card in Aldmor decks;

Aldmor Scout - this card is not useful because it has weak stats for a 3cc;
Aldmor Scout - this card is useful because it has an immediate effect; it has a great search effect;
Rating 1; quite usable in Aldmor decks;

Aldmor Sentry - this card is not useful because it has rather weak stats for 3cc;
Aldmor Sentry - this card is useful because it has a great control ability; it is immune to disabled which is a common effect; prevents haste damage to hero;
Rating 0; alright card but has still weak stats;

Aldmor Chieftan - this card is not useful because its ability is quite costly;
Aldmor Chieftan - this card is useful because it is not unique to allow big boosts;
Rating 1; A great card for Aldmor decks especially since it can be searched;

Aldmor Scavenger - this card is not useful because it needs to stay on board to activate its ability;
Aldmor Scavenger - this card is useful because it has good staying power with defender and 6 health; it can also return artifacts from opposing graveyard;
Rating 0; Usually not needed in Aldmor decks since you can just research and play artifacts;

Ancient of Aldmor - this card is not useful because a lot of times your hero doesn't have more than 4 Shadow Energy so it has quite low attack;
Ancient of Aldmor - this card is useful because it can be played for less ressources; has massive health; not unique;
Rating -1; after nerf it got a lot less useful and punishing for oppenent;

Spirit of Devotion - this card is not useful because one health on one ally doesn't usually gain you the board; full effect only in Twilight or Templar decks;
Spirit of Devotion - this card is useful because it is a good draw card for 1 cc;
Rating 0; not bad to draw cards, there are better options available usually though;

Scriptures of the Departed - this card is not useful because its condition is rather hard to meet for one card draw;
Scriptures of the Departed - this card is useful because in late game it usually grants 1 card per turn which is good;
Rating 0; not a terrible draw engine, not the best available;

Moment of Acquiescence - this card is not useful because it needs quite a lot of cards to use its effect; only stays on board for 3 turns;
Moment of Acquiséscence - this card is useful because it has a good control power; costs only one cc;
Rating 0; playing the card and discarding another one of top is really a high cost;

Relentless Savagery - this card is not useful because it only gives its full effect to claw allies;
Relentless Savagery - this card is useful because it has a great recursion effect and can be used multiple times to gain card advantage;
Rating: 1; Super useful card with a great effect that can work as a combo with Confluence of Fate;

Tar-written Scroll - this card is not useful because after nerf to Racksul it cannot return allies back to your hand; quite low damage;
Tar-written Scroll - this card is useful because it deals fire damage;
Rating -1; it had a fun combo with racksul but even then wasn't that great;

Thriss Crucible - this card is not useful because it needs to be set up first;
Thriss Crucible - this card is useful because its a great way to deal big damage in one turn with attack buffs;
Rating 0; after the nerf less useful since the loss of one attack point and ofc shard loss

Groundshift - this card is not useful because /
Groundshift - this card is useful because it is an incredible tech card against many unfavourable matchups.
Rating 2; Incredible useful card;

Spontaneous Growth - this card is not useful because it has two different effects but both are not that great in itself
Spontaneous Growth - this card is useful because It gives steadfast which is great for homunculus
Rating 0; It has positive effects in homunculus but is often exchanged for better choices

[maxi1230]

Sinkhole - this card is not useful because 2 damage doesn't kill anything; locations are not that popular;
Sinkhole - this card is useful because it helps a lot against weenie allies;
Rating 0; In very rare occasions this is your card to go for in control aspects; In garth it may be a 1;

Rest for the Weary - this card is not useful because locations are not popular; both effects are not that good for 4cc;
Rest for the Weary - this card is useful because i guess it can be a draw engine?
Rating -2; this card has two effects; I cannot plan with it; I actually have better cards to fulfill these purposes;

Clockwork Soldier - this card is not useful because it needs 1 SE to have an impact on board; cannot be played multiple times; it can be destroyed as an item;
Clockwork Soldier - this card is useful because it survives boardwipes and one-shot abilities; it can be searched; it works with cards like energy extraction or Sacrificial Lamb;
Rating 1; Quite useful in Aldmor decks;

Disruptor Field - this card is not useful because it only helps Aldmor allies;
Disruptor Field - this card is useful because it is incredible helpful for board control and keeps your aldmor alive; it can be searched;
Rating 1; A key card in many Aldmor decks;

Rejuvenation Pod - this card is not useful because it only helps aldmor allies;
Rejuvenation Pod - this card is useful because it keeps your aldmors alive; it recycles key allies of aldmor; it can be searched;
Rating 1; Another staple in aldmor decks;

Shadow Cannon - this card is not useful because it costs too much;
Rating -2; Seriously I don't even bother with positive aspects anymore;

Aldmor Conflux - this card is not useful because it needs a hell lot of set up;
Aldmor Conflux - this card is useful because it can catch oppenents by surprise and end games quickly;
Rating: -1 it feels more like a win more card or a OTK combo troll deck card;

Lorhon: Twilight Encampment - this card is not useful because it costs 1 SE to search a twilight ally + you have to kill one of your allies; So you lose the board advantage of the Ally and of your hero ability; oppenent gets a free buff to all of his allies;
Lorhon: Twilight Encampment - this card is useful because it is a good search engine;
Rating -1; The card takes too much for what it gives;

Sosilo: Brothers' Landing - this card is not useful because it costs 1SE to draw 2 cards for every card you discard; the oppenent gets a free Serena effect and discards another card making the card values you get either 0 or 1;
Sosilo: Brothers' Landing - this card is useful because it replaces the cards you discard which is very much needed in Templar decks;
Rating -1; Currently not useful since the oppenent's effect is way too strong/ the 1SE cost hurts;

Anmor: Garina Road - this card is not useful because you do not only give your oppenent a free bazaar, you also give him a cost reduction on all cards;
Anmor: Garina Road - this card is useful because the summoning effect of a fatty that early and for that few ressources can catch an oppenent off guard and make games end quickly;
Rating -1; Everyone hated this card before the nerf, everyone hates it now because it is not usable; let it gooo;

Irum: Lightning Quarry - this card is not useful because except you're a mage you need allies on board readied with electric attack to make use of it; the oppenents effect is quite strong;
Irum: Lightning Quarry - this card is useful because it has a great effect to renew a great amount of ressources;
Rating: 0; not a terrible bad card like some other locations but still not that great;

Gaderi: Braxno Citadel - this card is not useful because defender is some kind of weak pseudo stealth; you already need to have a board or a weapon set uo to make use of it; locations re not popular;
Gaderi: Braxno Citadel - this card is useful because it prevents oppenents locations by one turn and forces 1SE from him;
Rating -1; not useful in higher level play;

The Wilds: Trading Port - this card is not useful because the oppenent can destroy your artifacts; he can get your location and get value out of it;
The Wilds: Trading Port - this card is useful because it gives nice draw as long as you control it and a nice ressouce renewal;
Rating 0; If you really depend on your artifacts you don't want that card since it gives your oppenent an easy way to deal with it;

Racksul: Warped Desert - this card is not useful because it depends on the opposing deck; Oppenent gets good draw + can get your key cards;
Rating -2; After the nerf it cannot be exploited anymore by unlimited ability recursal with Wizent's Prayer, which makes sense, but now it has no reason to be played;

Arthyle's Pass: Dead Man's Breach - this card is not useful because you cannot use it for OTK combos; restricts your deck building in a big way; oppenent gets a way to ping etra damage to your hero;
Arthyle's Pass: Dead Man's Breach - this card is useful because it acts as an alright board control tool;
Rating 0; A card that can surprisingly be good in Rothem and is a fine card for him, but since Rothem is not a good hero this card hasn't made it to competitive play so far;

Yahari: Valley of Doom - this card is not useful because it gives your oppenent draw to come back as well as giving the location to him; if your oppenent knows you run this card he can play around it;
Yahari: Valley of Doom - this card is useful because it can act as a surprise board wipe in decks you would not expect one; It exiles ---> no graveyard interaction for oppenent;
Rating 1; A wonderful card for control decks, but cannot be run in more aggressive decks usually;

Lyth: Kristan's Ridge - this card is not useful because it restricts your deck building to almos only ice attack allies; oppenent can turn the location --> synergy in your deck is destroyed until you can play another location or turn it;
Lyth: Krystan's Ridge - this card is useful because it has a quite strong effect for 3SE, which is stronger than Banebows ability with only 2 Ice attack allies; it has amazing synergy with Frostmare;
Rating -1; The current amount of ice attack allies restricts this card so far in lower play, it can become strong though;

Ravenscrest: Valley of Secrets - this card is not useful because Your oppenent gets a really strong effect; restricts your deck building to be useful;
Ravencrest: Valley of Secrets - this card is useful because with a lot of Support abilities you can burn through your deck as fast as hot steel through butter;
Rating -1; Definitely a fun card to mess around with, once there are more useful low cost Support Abilities it might become a really strong card;

Kiruth: Thaddeus' Vault - this card is not useful because the oppenent can mess with your graveyard which denies many Undead Allies effects; You need a lot of cards to renew ressources so you might end up with many ressources but no cards to play;
Kiruth: Thaddeus' Vault - this card is useful because There are a lot of cards that can activate the effect and it gives a cool boost to ressources;
Rating 0; Not that bad, but not that great either; you have to pack a lot of draw, a lot of undead allies and this location, which leaves less place for tech or control cards;

Asyn: Mount Kazarr - this card is not useful because you need a damaged ravager ally first to make use of this card; oppenent gets a stronger effect in most cases, free pseudo haste is quite strong;
Asyn: Mount Kazarr - this card is useful because you could deny oppenent's effect with Stealth for example; most ravager allies want to get damaged anyways; There are Ravager Zealot and Thriss Crucible who can enter play damaged.
Rating 0; in combination with Ravager Zealot and Thriss Crucible this card might become playable

Lakmire: Training Outpost - this card is not useful because there are not that many high cost attachments Wulven allies could benefit from; the opposite effect is directly against the swarming abilities of the Wulven;
Lakmire: Training Outpost - this card is useful because we have already seen how strong it can be with Exaltation: it gives an amazing tempo bonus;
Rating: 0; again a card that could become really strong with more support;

Rankett: Proving Grounds - this card is not useful because it comes one turn too late, most buffing occurs on t3 when Abomination Factory was set down or is set down; The opposite effect is a strong control effect and steals your location;
Rankett: Proving Grounds - this card is useful because it gives exactly what homuculus needs: More buff, more Draw;
Rating: 0; It was really strong on t3, still nothing to laugh at but not as scary as before;

[maxi1230]

To conclude: Most LL cards are strong in a particular set up, but don't allow deck variations. Since most tribe decks aren't that strong atm the cards themselves do not work as great as they could with the right support. Some cards can become really strong in the future.

In the end let's take a look at the "Stop Nerfs" Thread again. In my opinion there is no "right" or "wrong" balance, there are just people who prefer particular gameplay.
For example the ratio I set up:
There are people who would like most cards to be on level 2 to have strong cards that can change the game in any particular situation and probably lead to very fast paced games. Some might like tribe decks or decks that have another interesting synergy who would like most cards to be at level 1. Some would like all cards to be at level 0: A broad variety of cards at the same level to allow a lot of different decks and styles, with no card being a vast amount stronger than the others. People who like cards at level -1 like games that depend more on the strategy than on strong cards. Worse cards mean slower and more thoughtful Gameplay, with no card being uncounterable, but also no surprise factors.
No one likes -2 cards I think though :P .

Ok that's it from my side, if you disagree with any rating you can post your opinion below and if you have read it all thank you!
Btw I would like cards being rated somewhere between 0 and 1 and 2. I love deck crafting :P .

1003 post yey!

[neratza713]

nice write up.

[seedog]

Groundshift seems overrated imo

[streetsahead]

Wow Maxi. That's nuts. Nice work

[Shadows R Us]

Fun read, thanks.

I'd say troll would still be a 2, I guess time will tell. Maybe you pack less in a deck instead of always doing 4x.

[Caitlyn0]

so, is that only 2 cards are good enough to be played and anything else, has to be completely built around to get any usefulness out of it?

[maxi1230]

so, is that only 2 cards are good enough to be played and anything else, has to be completely built around to get any usefulness out of it?

I wouldn't see it that harsh, however it seems like DT wanted to achieve something similiar with the first set introducing tribe cards almost exclusively. It's one of the reasons why LL isn't that fun deck building so far since once you have tried all the tribes you struggle to find anything new.
I think for further Expansion it would be wiser to maybe introduce one tribe for each faction and make the rest stand alone cards to allow more deck crafting.

Groundshift seems overrated imo

Please elaborate, my ratings are in no way final. For good arguments I will change them.

Btw if there is enough interest I can change this after each balance change.